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hulk ccp
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Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-08-17 22:07:59 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
What's all this then?


Stating facts.

ashley Eoner wrote:
How dare you use reality and facts against Shreza. I mean seriously this person thinks that the hulk lost 100-300hp shield regen after the buff or something. Which will somehow stop a gang of gankers from ganking a hulk where as a buffer fit which has more HP will somehow be doomed..


The hulk lost shield regeneration due to the increased recharge time, that's a fact. I also don't recall saying or even implying that it was enough to "stop a gang of gankers." How you would come to that conclusion when I even pointed out that the EHP increase the hulk got when buffer tanked was in the 5-6% range is beyond me.

_____

Put words in my mouth all you want, ascribe motivations to my posts that don't exist all you care to, it doesn't change the fact that not every change made to the hulk was a buff. The overall effect was a buff, but not every change was a buff. Feel free to believe that the hulk was "buffed in every way" if you want to though.
ashley Eoner
#82 - 2012-08-18 02:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Shereza wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
What's all this then?


Stating facts.

ashley Eoner wrote:
How dare you use reality and facts against Shreza. I mean seriously this person thinks that the hulk lost 100-300hp shield regen after the buff or something. Which will somehow stop a gang of gankers from ganking a hulk where as a buffer fit which has more HP will somehow be doomed..


The hulk lost shield regeneration due to the increased recharge time, that's a fact. I also don't recall saying or even implying that it was enough to "stop a gang of gankers." How you would come to that conclusion when I even pointed out that the EHP increase the hulk got when buffer tanked was in the 5-6% range is beyond me.

_____

Put words in my mouth all you want, ascribe motivations to my posts that don't exist all you care to, it doesn't change the fact that not every change made to the hulk was a buff. The overall effect was a buff, but not every change was a buff. Feel free to believe that the hulk was "buffed in every way" if you want to though.

You're utterly failing at reading but that doesn't surprise me because only someone that is an utter failure would gripe that gaining shield health resulting in an overal EHP boost in a fleet vessel is a nerf because the regen went down 10 hps.
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#83 - 2012-08-18 06:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Serena Serene
Why are you people so eager on pushing Shereza in the "silly complainer" corner?
What I've read from her in this thread sounds reasonable and not even like a complaint, not to speak of a silly one.

She says the hulk got buffed. She says there are some aspects where it got worse but other changes offset that, so that it got buffed over all.
She's not saying "gaining shield hp is a nerf because regen went down" .. she says that regen went down, so the over-all buff when you account for regeneration, too, is not as big as looking at pure static ehp implies.

Maybe you all are too used to people like the OP whose complaints really sound very unreasonable so you understand everything as whining? I'm not sure, I just don't really see it in this case. It feels like you are overreacting here.

Edit: tried to clarify what I meant somewhat
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-08-22 01:07:33 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
I have a noticeable increase in yield

You and the other 5% who mine while present at your computer.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Herr Hammer Draken
#85 - 2012-08-22 06:29:55 UTC
Monsieur Leon wrote:
Oh and CCP has something to say to you.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73098

Quote:
The goal here is to allow players to choose a barge that fits their specific play style rather than lead them on a journey from the worst barge to the best one.

The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals.
The Retriever and Mackinaw are specifically designed for autonomy purposes, as their large ore bays allow their pilot to stay inside an asteroid belt for longer without having to dock.
The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield.





Pay attention to yields stated too

Quote:
Ship Veldspar/hour Mercoxit/hour Ice/hour
Hulk 2,035,290 3,217 85
Covetor 1,846,763 2,916 80
Mackinaw 1,761,350 2,781 79
Retriever 1,677,477 2,650 75
Skiff 1,615,918 2,557 72
Procurer 1,538,971 2,432 68


Have a good day.



Wow how special... most miners run their own fleet. What would be the point otherwise.

As for CCP they can have their opinion, but the forums are for players to voice theirs.

The Hulk got nerfed - need to expanded the ore hold.

Cheers,
Leon[/quote]

Here is a player that is stuborn to the last and refuses to adapt. Well then enjoy your Hulk. You could be having so much more fun in a Mack with a huge ore bay and a tank easily double what you had in your Hulk. And the Mack will mine just about as fast as your old Hulk did. But hey refuse to adapt and complain about the change. When you rage quit I will take your stuff.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-08-22 06:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Here is a player that is stuborn to the last and refuses to adapt. Well then enjoy your Hulk. You could be having so much more fun in a Mack with a huge ore bay and a tank easily double what you had in your Hulk. And the Mack will mine just about as fast as your old Hulk did. But hey refuse to adapt and complain about the change. When you rage quit I will take your stuff.


This exactly.

I have mined in a retriever (when I do mine) since my first or second month in EVE. I'm just past 2 years now and still wasn't ready to train barges 5 before the changes were announced. My ship got a HUGE buff. I don't dispute that it needed a buff, but it's too much. It's just so darn easy to mine in this contraption that I really shouldn't have that insane output. I'd say give em these role bonuses and the problem will be fixed:

retriever/mackinaw: +25%

procurer/skiff: +100%

This would leave the small barges at a net mining yield of 200%/210% and the mediums at 250%/262.5%. The larges would have a base of 300% and a max of 345%/396.75%. This means at these amounts, even the procurer which is small and fast, has a big fat capacitor, has tons of HP and a pretty nice-sized ore bay, at mining barge skill level 1 would still mine more than half as fast as a max-skilled hulk.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Tassian Marrix
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-08-22 12:14:17 UTC
Ships are fine. I only mine 4100 m3 per cycle with my mack, it's 5200 per cycle with my hulk. Use the ship for the situation needed. I will stay in a hulk until my area gets dangerous then i will move to a mack or skiff. The changes were fairly balanced all around and dont really need any tweaking.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-08-22 13:34:46 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Here is a player that is stuborn to the last and refuses to adapt. Well then enjoy your Hulk. You could be having so much more fun in a Mack with a huge ore bay and a tank easily double what you had in your Hulk. And the Mack will mine just about as fast as your old Hulk did. But hey refuse to adapt and complain about the change. When you rage quit I will take your stuff.


This exactly.

I have mined in a retriever (when I do mine) since my first or second month in EVE. I'm just past 2 years now and still wasn't ready to train barges 5 before the changes were announced. My ship got a HUGE buff. I don't dispute that it needed a buff, but it's too much. It's just so darn easy to mine in this contraption that I really shouldn't have that insane output. I'd say give em these role bonuses and the problem will be fixed:

retriever/mackinaw: +25%

procurer/skiff: +100%

This would leave the small barges at a net mining yield of 200%/210% and the mediums at 250%/262.5%. The larges would have a base of 300% and a max of 345%/396.75%. This means at these amounts, even the procurer which is small and fast, has a big fat capacitor, has tons of HP and a pretty nice-sized ore bay, at mining barge skill level 1 would still mine more than half as fast as a max-skilled hulk.


This automatically make the Hulk the default be all end all solution for mining which is exactly what CCP was trying to get away from. The problem is really easy to solve.

Use the Hulk when in a mining ops with orca support.
Use the Mack when solo mining.
Use the Skiff when mining in dangerous space.

Use thier related tech 1 version when you don't have the upfront isk or don't want to potential huge hit if you get blown up.
Kelhund
Scope Mining Empire
Outer Planets Association
#89 - 2012-08-22 16:02:11 UTC
Here I remember the days when the best mining ship out there was an Apocalypse with T2 mining lasers........I agree with the changes to the barges, and I think it brings a little more spice to them
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-08-23 10:48:03 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
-brilliant solutions-


This automatically make the Hulk the default be all end all solution for mining

You can say that all you want but history shows clearly that almost all miners disagree with you. Even now mackinaw prices are HIGHER than hulk prices, despite their mineral cost being substantially lower.

You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. Stop trying to defend your position with feelings and opinions, because the facts blatantly disagree with you.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-08-23 19:12:02 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
-brilliant solutions-


This automatically make the Hulk the default be all end all solution for mining

You can say that all you want but history shows clearly that almost all miners disagree with you. Even now mackinaw prices are HIGHER than hulk prices, despite their mineral cost being substantially lower.

You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. Stop trying to defend your position with feelings and opinions, because the facts blatantly disagree with you.


The only reason why the mack price skyrocketed so high is because it is now usefull and people are buying them in drove. Once every serious solo miner have them and the demand goes back down, the price wil adjust. People who used to mine with 2 or account unsig either orca + hulk or Orca + hulk + hulk are now going with mack + mack and mack+ mack + mack because the total yields are better with those setups. Thats a **** ton of hulk potentially going abck for sale and a large extra demand for Mack. The mack for a multiboxer is batter up to 3 account where the added yield of a hulk + orca boost picks up to beat a full macks combo. A solo miner out of ops is a solo miner so he will go with a amck now of course. The Hulk will get used in large operation (4 account+).

Oh look. It's a fleet miner!

Your "brillant solution" would most likely only change the cutoff where hulks start beating macks in total yield to require 3 account instead of 4. Whats the point of doing that?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-09-03 04:37:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The only reason why the mack price skyrocketed so high is because it is now usefull and people are buying them in drove. Once every serious solo miner have them and the demand goes back down, the price wil adjust.

And that explains why all the hulk miners switched to mackinaws.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-09-03 06:11:08 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
-brilliant solutions-


This automatically make the Hulk the default be all end all solution for mining

You can say that all you want but history shows clearly that almost all miners disagree with you. Even now mackinaw prices are HIGHER than hulk prices, despite their mineral cost being substantially lower.

You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. Stop trying to defend your position with feelings and opinions, because the facts blatantly disagree with you.


And about 10 days later mackinaw and hulk prices are nearly identical in Jita and skiff prices are around 65% of that, which is to say that compared to pre-1.2 prices mackinaws have dropped around 40m, hulks around 80m, and skiffs around 30m. PLEXes, however, are still 20m higher than they were pre-1.2. Go figure. Roll

Just an observation.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#94 - 2012-09-03 23:30:03 UTC
I am missing t-2 resitances on exhumers.
Why did ccp remove them, it is a t-2 ship afterall ??!
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-09-03 23:46:31 UTC
I don't recall off-hand what the "official excuse" was but it probably boils down to realism on the part of exhumers being civilian ships and balance on the part of their increased shield hp making keeping the 7.5% bonuses to be OP for what the developers were aiming for. They were nice but hardly needed since even with the loss of the EHP they provided the raw HP the ships got more than compensates for it.
Pipa Porto
#96 - 2012-09-04 00:02:10 UTC
Spc One wrote:
I am missing t-2 resitances on exhumers.
Why did ccp remove them, it is a t-2 ship afterall ??!


They never had them. Prepatch, the Hulk's 7.5%/barge level resistance bonus was included in its base stats (because the bonus was tied to the Mining Barge skill which was assumed to be at 5)

Now, the 5%/barge level resistance bonus is not included in the base stats, but is instead calculated once someone with barge 5 is actually flying the thing.

Oh, and a tanked Hulk has about 3k more EHP than it did before the patch, but whine away.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#97 - 2012-09-04 00:03:52 UTC
Kelhund wrote:
Here I remember the days when the best mining ship out there was an Apocalypse with T2 mining lasers........I agree with the changes to the barges, and I think it brings a little more spice to them



Hah. I remember my 3rd account back before I let it lapse always mining in Domi with a fun little drone swarm. ;) A small masochistic part of me misses that. ;P

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-09-04 00:20:45 UTC
I'm honestly going to miss jet-can mining. There's no reason to throw out a jet-can from a retriever anymore, and so if I did, people would assume it's a trap. I can't get funny kills anymore in my retriever, so I just fit a survey scanner instead of a warp scrambler now.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#99 - 2012-09-04 03:00:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Spc One wrote:
I am missing t-2 resitances on exhumers.
Why did ccp remove them, it is a t-2 ship afterall ??!


They never had them. Prepatch, the Hulk's 7.5%/barge level resistance bonus was included in its base stats (because the bonus was tied to the Mining Barge skill which was assumed to be at 5)

Now, the 5%/barge level resistance bonus is not included in the base stats, but is instead calculated once someone with barge 5 is actually flying the thing.

Oh, and a tanked Hulk has about 3k more EHP than it did before the patch, but whine away.

Oh, ok.
So the only thing they changed about resitances is 7.5% per level to 5% per level.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-09-04 05:19:39 UTC
holy crap, they did change it to 5%! That's messed up! As if hulks weren't squishy already!

People used to destroy hulks with 10m isk catalysts. They really need a EHP buff!

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."