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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#1001 - 2012-09-03 21:08:20 UTC
that's okay i don't mind t2bpo's all that much...keep the prices down for me mwhahahaha
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#1002 - 2012-09-03 21:16:37 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
No one complains about rare hulls because rare hulls are easily popped or stolen if they are used or shared, The point is that T2BPO's can not be stolen when shared nor can they be destroyed as there is zero reason to move them from a station. A perfect nerf would be to only allow T2BPO's to be used outside high sec and only physically in a pos. This would bring them in line with rare ships. You could keep your t2bpo in a station alongside a unique ship but you should not be able to use it or profit from it.


no Brewlar yo usaid this 10 times already and its still a stupid idea... how would anyone know whats inside a POS and what not?

shar'ra phone home
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#1003 - 2012-09-03 21:50:37 UTC
I have to agree, Not moving T2 BPO's is not good for the economy, they should at the very least be made in a way where they can easily be stolen if shared.

it would be nice to see T2 manufacture move to Lowsec or nulsec
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#1004 - 2012-09-03 22:01:28 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:

you and your dramatic statements about thing beeing unique in a certain way.... fine, a t2 BPO is the only thing that can make T2 items without using a copy in the game....so? a Freki is the only Rifter Hull class that has a bonus for webbing, boost rifters

First off, if you want a ship with a web bonus you can use a Loki or I believe Huginn.

Also I am not calling a T2 BPO a "collector's item" the way that a Freki is a collector's item. I think this is the post of mine that you missed.

Traedar wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Traedar wrote:


T2 BPOs are rare but they are not collectors' items. .


TROLOLOLOLOL

lol


Fine, I'll clarify. They are limited and if you want to collect them then you can because there won't be any more (as they exist today). However, they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected.

Also I think one point I'm trying to make is, they should not be collector's items any more than a Raven BPO should be.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#1005 - 2012-09-03 22:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Kara Books wrote:
I have to agree, Not moving T2 BPO's is not good for the economy, they should at the very least be made in a way where they can easily be stolen if shared.

it would be nice to see T2 manufacture move to Lowsec or nulsec


yea its not a secret that you have to agree anything that brewlar says, even tho the entire topic of "can be stolen" is just stupid...

How does switching the owner help the situation of T2 BPO`s destroying the market etc?
Does it matter if the BPO stays the same but is used by a different owner?
Did u fail to steal a T2 BPO or what?

Traedar wrote:

First off, if you want a ship with a web bonus you can use a Loki or I believe Huginn.


So? if you want a t2 ship, invent it of a t1 copy... you see there are always alternatives that work but in the case of T2 production you guys have to cry about the only alternative that you are apparently not able to use as you simply cannot afford it. If you ask me, its a pretty shady and childish attitude.

shar'ra phone home
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#1006 - 2012-09-03 23:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
And now you're saying that it's worth tying say 5 Trillion ISK up in BPOs in order to make 40 billion ISK a month. (Scimitar BPOs)

There are any number of things you can do with 5 Trillion ISK that would earn far more than 40 billion ISK a month.


Those BPOs cost you exactly 0 isk. so 40 billion per month for 0 isk investment is quite good.



Said a thousand times over they won't admit it.

T2BPO ROI is off the charts. If we take a value of RP invested into the ''lottery'' and we look at the value of the T2BPO's dished out. If the lottery was fair (it wasn't) and it sunk more isk than it dealt out then we would not have a problem with T2BPO's.

The return in investment is phenomenal. The original investment for a T2BPO was nothing and that nothing could become an instant 600 billion along side a guaranteed 5 billion isk risk free per month on the very best blue prints.

CCP completely de-legitimised the EVE economy by gifting content that completely over valued the effort required to obtain it. Untill T2BPO's are removed from the game the EVE online economy will be nothing but a sham and to call it player driver is slanderous and false advertising. CCP controls the eve economy through gifts to players.
Pipa Porto
#1007 - 2012-09-03 23:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
And now you're saying that it's worth tying say 5 Trillion ISK up in BPOs in order to make 40 billion ISK a month. (Scimitar BPOs)

There are any number of things you can do with 5 Trillion ISK that would earn far more than 40 billion ISK a month.


Those BPOs cost you exactly 0 isk. so 40 billion per month for 0 isk investment is quite good.



Said a thousand times over they won't admit it.

T2BPO ROI is off the charts. If we take a value of RP invested into the ''lottery'' and we look at the value of the T2BPO's dished out. If the lottery was fair (it wasn't) and it sunk more isk than it dealt out then we would not have a problem with T2BPO's.

The return in investment is phenomenal. The original investment for a T2BPO was nothing and that nothing could become an instant 600 billion along side a guaranteed 5 billion isk risk free per month on the very best blue prints.

CCP completely de-legitimised the EVE economy by gifting content that completely over valued the effort required to obtain it. Untill T2BPO's are removed from the game the EVE online economy will be nothing but a sham and to call it player driver is slanderous and false advertising. CCP controls the eve economy through gifts to players.


You have a very odd definition of Instant, since that Scimitar BPO couldn't have spawned any time later than 5 years ago.

5 years is instant. Brewlar Kuvakei, everyone!

Oh, and the ROI is only at all worthwhile if you don't understand opportunity cost. (And possibly have a time machine.)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#1008 - 2012-09-03 23:22:13 UTC
Back to the point, CCP is not removing them. If you want a direct answer just show up to the next even (EVE Vegas) and ask.

I sure as hell will, and I will ask them to restart the "lottery" and give us more t2 BPO's. It's time to make R&D points worth something, and datacores are just nice to have.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#1009 - 2012-09-03 23:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD BiscuitThief
The cost of opportunity was nothing -snip-. All you had to do was enter a lottery. A lottery that had no place existing as it was gifting items without taking any equal capital in return. Such a lottery could only exist in a fictional economy such as EVE's. Anyone who says the eve economy is player driven or realistic is wrong for this reason.

CCP controls the eve economy and until they remove T2BPO's that will always be the case. As long as T2BPO's remain CCP has no right to call the eve realistic. It is purely a fabrication driven by them.

Edit: Please remember that personal attacks are against the forum rules - ISD BiscuitThief
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#1010 - 2012-09-03 23:25:27 UTC
Vigilant wrote:
Back to the point, CCP is not removing them. If you want a direct answer just show up to the next even (EVE Vegas) and ask.

I sure as hell will, and I will ask them to restart the "lottery" and give us more t2 BPO's. It's time to make R&D points worth something, and datacores are just nice to have.




I agree 100%. I've been calling on CCP to destroy the T3 market for months now. Make T3 bpo's a reality it's time to bring wormhole dwellers over to my side.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#1011 - 2012-09-03 23:39:11 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

I agree 100%. I've been calling on CCP to destroy the T3 market for months now. Make T3 bpo's a reality it's time to bring wormhole dwellers over to my side.


l2sarcasm dude, I dont even know who you are actually trollingQuestion

shar'ra phone home
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#1012 - 2012-09-03 23:41:48 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:

Traedar wrote:

First off, if you want a ship with a web bonus you can use a Loki or I believe Huginn.


So? if you want a t2 ship, invent it of a t1 copy... you see there are always alternatives that work but in the case of T2 production you guys have to cry about the only alternative that you are apparently not able to use as you simply cannot afford it. If you ask me, its a pretty shady and childish attitude.

[/quote]
I would do that if I were interested in invention. My point is that I'm not interested in the invention clickfest. I'm interested in building T2 from a BPO like I can do with any T1 item in the game (I can buy the BPO from a NPC!). If there exist any BPO for these items at all, like they do for say a Raven, then why can't I buy one in the game via PVE? This is what I mean when I say, a T2 BPO should not be a collector's item any more than a Raven BPO should be. They should be available for anyone to get (via PVE).

Pipa Porto wrote:

Faction towers take less effort to run and run more efficiently than regular towers, T2 BPOs take less effort to run and run more efficiently than Invention.


A tower's function is to run reacton, moon harvest, research BPO, etc. Any tower can do this. So a faction tower uses 10% less fuel? You're comparing this to a T2 BPO bypassing the costs and effort of invention? With a T2 BPO, you can build off it using 1 hr of effort per month saving plenty of cost and logistics compared to invention (invest in T1 BPO, tower, make BPC, buy datacore, decryptor).
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#1013 - 2012-09-03 23:43:45 UTC
Vigilant wrote:
Back to the point, CCP is not removing them. If you want a direct answer just show up to the next even (EVE Vegas) and ask.

I sure as hell will, and I will ask them to restart the "lottery" and give us more t2 BPO's. It's time to make R&D points worth something, and datacores are just nice to have.



What about all the future dust players who may want to partake in eve online and the T2 lottery?

How are they going to fare against the established community, this is why the T2 situation needs to be looked into, remove not remove, just made fair, and theftable/scamable.
this is EvE.

Id like to see the numbers swell to 100K online on the servers one day, that would be much better then looking at the few grappling on to their precious.

Deal with IT.
Pipa Porto
#1014 - 2012-09-03 23:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD BiscuitThief
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
The cost of opportunity was nothing -snip-. All you had to do was enter a lottery. A lottery that had no place existing as it was gifting items without taking any equal capital in return. Such a lottery could only exist in a fictional economy such as EVE's. Anyone who says the eve economy is player driven or realistic is wrong for this reason.

CCP controls the eve economy and until they remove T2BPO's that will always be the case. As long as T2BPO's remain CCP has no right to call the eve realistic. It is purely a fabrication driven by them.


Nope. You had to win the lottery. And even then, there was a good chance of getting a ****** BPO.

The lottery was meant to represent the vagaries of scientific research. There are plenty of people who invent something new and get rich off of it. That's what the lottery was meant to represent.


But enough about the game mechanics of 5 years ago. To make an argument for removing T2 BPOs from the game, you either need to make a case for the availability of Time Travel or for T2 BPOs causing actual harm to the game now, not 5 years ago.

You've failed on both counts. You've failed on the second count repeatedly.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#1015 - 2012-09-03 23:55:07 UTC
Traedar wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Faction towers take less effort to run and run more efficiently than regular towers, T2 BPOs take less effort to run and run more efficiently than Invention.
A tower's function is to run reacton, moon harvest, research BPO, etc. Any tower can do this. So a faction tower uses 10% less fuel? You're comparing this to a T2 BPO bypassing the costs and effort of invention? With a T2 BPO, you can build off it using 1 hr of effort per month saving plenty of cost and logistics compared to invention (invest in T1 BPO, tower, make BPC, buy datacore, decryptor).


A T2 BPO's function is to create a T2 Item. Invention can also do this. So a T2 BPO uses a little less effort then invention, just like a Faction tower takes a little less effort to run. So a T2 BPO consumes a little less ISK in production, just like a Faction tower takes a little less ISK to run.

Just like if you want the convenience of a faction tower, you have to buy one from another player, if you want the convenience (and terrible ROI) of a T2 BPO, you have to buy one from a player.

An unlimited seed of T2 BPOs would simply destroy the invention profession, and in the process make T2 manufacturing about as profitable as T1 manufacturing.

Just because you want something but are too cheap to pay market value for it doesn't mean it's CCP's duty to provide it to you.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#1016 - 2012-09-03 23:56:34 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Back to the point, CCP is not removing them. If you want a direct answer just show up to the next even (EVE Vegas) and ask.

I sure as hell will, and I will ask them to restart the "lottery" and give us more t2 BPO's. It's time to make R&D points worth something, and datacores are just nice to have.



What about all the future dust players who may want to partake in eve online and the T2 lottery?

How are they going to fare against the established community, this is why the T2 situation needs to be looked into, remove not remove, just made fair, and theftable/scamable.
this is EvE.

Id like to see the numbers swell to 100K online on the servers one day, that would be much better then looking at the few grappling on to their precious.

Deal with IT.


They'll be able to manufacture T2 items and profit from it just fine once their shiny new EVE toons get their science training done.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#1017 - 2012-09-04 00:03:35 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Back to the point, CCP is not removing them. If you want a direct answer just show up to the next even (EVE Vegas) and ask.

I sure as hell will, and I will ask them to restart the "lottery" and give us more t2 BPO's. It's time to make R&D points worth something, and datacores are just nice to have.



What about all the future dust players who may want to partake in eve online and the T2 lottery?

How are they going to fare against the established community, this is why the T2 situation needs to be looked into, remove not remove, just made fair, and theftable/scamable.
this is EvE.

Id like to see the numbers swell to 100K online on the servers one day, that would be much better then looking at the few grappling on to their precious.

Deal with IT.


They'll be able to manufacture T2 items and profit from it just fine once their shiny new EVE toons get their science training done.


They cant profit from their shiny new BPO's they cant whoopsie from some ones corp hanger now can they.
Pipa Porto
#1018 - 2012-09-04 00:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Kara Books wrote:
They cant profit from their shiny new BPO's they cant whoopsie from some ones corp hanger now can they.


Remove the ability to lock down BPOs and everyone's manufacturing alt will be in a one man corp. Industrial "Corps" will simply be chat channels. CEO's who want to help their newer industrialists by providing access to spare BPOs won't be able to do so.

Sounds like a grand improvement.


(Oh, and not everyone locks down their expensive BPO collection.)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#1019 - 2012-09-04 00:17:05 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
They cant profit from their shiny new BPO's they cant whoopsie from some ones corp hanger now can they.


Remove the ability to lock down BPOs and everyone's manufacturing alt will be in a one man corp. Industrial "Corps" will simply be chat channels. CEO's who want to help their newer industrialists by providing access to spare BPOs won't be able to do so.

Sounds like a grand improvement.


(Oh, and not everyone locks down their expensive BPO collection.)


Im glad we can agree on something.

Oh and, Why again are these CEO's Teaching "Newer Industrialists" how to make T2 items NOT from invention? I could have swore some one said that was more profitable.

Unlocking Blueprints just makes the Original owner, not collect passive ISK while their watching a "LazyTown Marathon" thats quite possibly another form of Passive ISK.
Pipa Porto
#1020 - 2012-09-04 00:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Kara Books wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
They cant profit from their shiny new BPO's they cant whoopsie from some ones corp hanger now can they.


Remove the ability to lock down BPOs and everyone's manufacturing alt will be in a one man corp. Industrial "Corps" will simply be chat channels. CEO's who want to help their newer industrialists by providing access to spare BPOs won't be able to do so.

Sounds like a grand improvement.


(Oh, and not everyone locks down their expensive BPO collection.)


Im glad we can agree on something.

Oh and, Why again are these CEO's Teaching "Newer Industrialists" how to make T2 items NOT from invention? I could have swore some one said that was more profitable.

Unlocking Blueprints just makes the Original owner, not collect passive ISK while their watching a "LazyTown Marathon" thats quite possibly another form of Passive ISK.


So, you're proposing that only T2 BPOs can't be locked down? That's kind of an odd distinction, isn't it?

Invention is less profitable per unit, but much more lucrative due to the much higher volumes you can produce. For any given amount of capital, you can make much, much, much more ISK through Invention than you can through T2 BPOs.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto