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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#981 - 2012-09-03 18:27:48 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
And now you're saying that it's worth tying say 5 Trillion ISK up in BPOs in order to make 40 billion ISK a month. (Scimitar BPOs)

There are any number of things you can do with 5 Trillion ISK that would earn far more than 40 billion ISK a month.


Those BPOs cost you exactly 0 isk. so 40 billion per month for 0 isk investment is quite good.


your not funny. tbqfh

shar'ra phone home
Skeenal Raholan
Doomheim
#982 - 2012-09-03 18:29:25 UTC
Isn't there a limited number of each type of t2bpo in game (thought I read 3 of each max). So yeah
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#983 - 2012-09-03 18:33:01 UTC
Skeenal Raholan wrote:
Isn't there a limited number of each type of t2bpo in game (thought I read 3 of each max). So yeah


think its like 10-15 per ship and a lot more per module..

shar'ra phone home
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#984 - 2012-09-03 18:38:16 UTC
Skeenal Raholan wrote:
Isn't there a limited number of each type of t2bpo in game (thought I read 3 of each max). So yeah


For example there's 20-25 Scimi BPOs left in the game. There was around 200 but most of them burned in wrecks or something weird happened to them.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#985 - 2012-09-03 18:46:10 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
And you end up manufacturing fewer items in that month. Good job.


That's why you have at least ten BPOs.


And now you're saying that it's worth tying say 5 Trillion ISK up in BPOs in order to make 40 billion ISK a month. (Scimitar BPOs)

There are any number of things you can do with 5 Trillion ISK that would earn far more than 40 billion ISK a month.


But then, we've been over this before.


Yes you can start a bank then scam people out of their ISK
Pipa Porto
#986 - 2012-09-03 19:57:30 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
And now you're saying that it's worth tying say 5 Trillion ISK up in BPOs in order to make 40 billion ISK a month. (Scimitar BPOs)

There are any number of things you can do with 5 Trillion ISK that would earn far more than 40 billion ISK a month.


Those BPOs cost you exactly 0 isk. so 40 billion per month for 0 isk investment is quite good.



You can sell them for the 5 Trillion ISK and use that ISK for other things, which means that no matter how you got them, they're still worth 5 Trillion ISk.

It's called "Opportunity Cost." Look it up.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#987 - 2012-09-03 19:58:11 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Skeenal Raholan wrote:
Isn't there a limited number of each type of t2bpo in game (thought I read 3 of each max). So yeah


For example there's 20-25 Scimi BPOs left in the game. There was around 200 but most of them burned in wrecks or something weird happened to them.


Do you have a source for this information, or are you lying again?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#988 - 2012-09-03 20:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Traedar
Wow this thread exploded again.

Pipa Porto wrote:

Just have to look back a couple pages to find the links to T2 BPO auctions. Including a Scimitar BPO, which sold for 525 Billion ISK. Assuming that you discount the cost of material inputs entirely, you make roughly 7.7 (call it 10) billion ISK per month, so you'd break even after 52 months, or 4 and a half years. Since moon goo you mine is not, in fact, free, your actual profit per month is something like 4 Billion ISK per month so you need to wait ~130 months to break even (that's almost 11 years, for those keeping score).


Would you pay 10B ISK for a T1 Raven hull? I mean, come on, if you mission for an hour a day it will only take you 5 years to make 100% profit! Roll Or would you sooner buy a Raven BPO from NPC and build one yourself?

Pipa Porto wrote:

If you are a collector, and want them for their rarity, then making new ones available hurts their rarity.


T2 BPOs are rare but they are not collectors' items. Guardian Vexor and State Issue Raven and AT Gold Medal are collector's items. T2 BPO's purpose is to produce T2 items without the invention process. If you paid through the nose for a T2 BPO because you felt it was a collector's item, that's your business.

Pipa Porto wrote:

If you are a producer, then you're goal isn't "use a T2 BPO," your goal is "Produce a T2 Item profitably." Invention works just fine for you.


WTF you can't tell other players what their goals are!

Pipa Porto wrote:

Oh, and Faction Towers, previous AT prizes, special event prizes. The list goes on of items previously, but not currently able to be brought into existence.


I'll fly a different ship or use a different tower, and get similar or more benefits. There are enough alternatives. However, if I want to produce T2 without the hassle of invention then there is no way for me to create a T2 BPO.

You know, AT prizes are exactly that: unique prizes given to those who earned them by being the best. They are collectors' items, not desirable because they can earn you billions of passive income a month, but because they had to be won by being the best. They also are not the only ships available and many others can perform the same functions just as well or better. Don't compare them to T2 BPOs which have a real purpose that can't be duplicated: to produce T2 items without the time or ISK of the invention process.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#989 - 2012-09-03 20:09:42 UTC
Traedar wrote:

T2 BPOs are rare but they are not collectors' items. .


lol

shar'ra phone home
Pipa Porto
#990 - 2012-09-03 20:15:21 UTC
Traedar wrote:
I'll fly a different ship or use a different tower, and get similar or more benefits. There are enough alternatives. However, if I want to produce T2 without the hassle of invention then there is no way for me to create a T2 BPO.


If you want to produce a T2 Item, you can invent it. Invention is the alternative to a BPO that has similar benefits (you create a T2 item).

Faction towers take less effort to run and run more efficiently than regular towers, T2 BPOs take less effort to run and run more efficiently than Invention.

If you're lazy and want that ease of use and efficiency (that's really not that much easier than Invention, especially in cases of fluctuating markets, where good market awareness might be the only thing to keep you in the black, while an inventor can simply switch away from the volatile market), T2 BPOs go on sale pretty regularly.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#991 - 2012-09-03 20:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Traedar
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Traedar wrote:


T2 BPOs are rare but they are not collectors' items. .


TROLOLOLOLOL

lol


Fine, I'll clarify. They are limited and if you want to collect them then you can because there won't be any more (as they exist today). However, they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected.

Also I think one point I'm trying to make is, they should not be collector's items any more than a Raven BPO should be.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#992 - 2012-09-03 20:20:09 UTC
Traedar wrote:
I'll fly a different ship or use a different tower, and get similar or more benefits. There are enough alternatives. However, if I want to produce T2 without the hassle of invention then there is no way for me to create a T2 BPO.


How exactly is the invention process so burdensome that it isn't a valid alternative to T2 BPOs? I've actually found that the barrier to entry is fairly low. Ramping up research/production is costly, but then so is seriously producing off of any BPO, especially one with so many component inputs.
Pipa Porto
#993 - 2012-09-03 20:24:16 UTC
Traedar wrote:
Fine, I'll clarify. They are limited and if you want to collect them then you can because there won't be any more (as they exist today). However, they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected.


Then tell me, what rationale besides "It's a collectors item" do you have for a Scimitar BPO (which earns about 4b a month) being valued by the market (as in, this is what it sold for) at half a Trillion ISK? And how is making a .7% monthly return on an investment "making a ton of ISK?"

And I could say that about faction Towers. Their ability to last longer without being refueled isn't duplicated by any other tower. And their fuel savings make a ton of ISK while being convenient in that way.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#994 - 2012-09-03 20:33:05 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Red Teufel wrote:
eh anything the devs exploited for BoB back in the day should of been removed from game. .


IT has been reomved from the game... I think it were only 5ish BPO wich were kinda bad anyways (except the Sabre BPO ofc)
but all of it has been removed fro mthe game and 5-6 years later we could rly stop bring that **** up


you're pretty stupid to think ccp has a way to track that. why do you think the devs havn't spoken about how many of the t2 bpos are there in game are.
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#995 - 2012-09-03 20:33:49 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Traedar wrote:
Fine, I'll clarify. They are limited and if you want to collect them then you can because there won't be any more (as they exist today). However, they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected.


Then tell me, what rationale besides "It's a collectors item" do you have for a Scimitar BPO (which earns about 4b a month) being valued by the market (as in, this is what it sold for) at half a Trillion ISK? And how is making a .7% monthly return on an investment "making a ton of ISK?"

And I could say that about faction Towers. Their ability to last longer without being refueled isn't duplicated by any other tower. And their fuel savings make a ton of ISK while being convenient in that way.


Well, collector's value aside for a moment, I suppose someone decided that 4B a month income with a half hour effort was worth that much investment. I actually would maybe consider that if I had that much to invest.

I think really the point I'm trying to make is: that Scimitar BPO price is ridiculous. See this:

Traedar wrote:

Would you pay 10B ISK for a T1 Raven hull? I mean, come on, if you mission for an hour a day it will only take you 5 years to make 100% profit! Roll Or would you sooner buy a Raven BPO from NPC and build one yourself?

... and ...
Traedar wrote:
Also I think one point I'm trying to make is, they should not be collector's items any more than a Raven BPO should be.
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#996 - 2012-09-03 20:41:57 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Red Teufel wrote:
eh anything the devs exploited for BoB back in the day should of been removed from game. .


IT has been reomved from the game... I think it were only 5ish BPO wich were kinda bad anyways (except the Sabre BPO ofc)
but all of it has been removed fro mthe game and 5-6 years later we could rly stop bring that **** up


you're pretty stupid to think ccp has a way to track that. why do you think the devs havn't spoken about how many of the t2 bpos are there in game are.


FYI there was a lot more shenanigans back in those days than just CCP Devs giving T2 BPOs to BoB. Like intel given to players about which NPC corps they were most likely to win the lottery with. Things of that nature.

Not to mention their exploits and EULA violations that had nothing to do with invention. Lol

They (or some at CCP at least) basically didn't have much respect for their players in those days, IMO.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#997 - 2012-09-03 20:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Really lets make eve a world class game by removing local in null and low or at least having sporadic (ghost signatures to **** off bots), introducing anti-bot code and banning those caught botting, removing T2BPO's and killing off RMT and extravagant numbers of alt accounts by introducing a mandatory 1day base subscription fee each month on top of purchasable 30 day licences oh and 1 char per account so people live with their actions instead of biomass and new suicide or scam char.

Lets do all this in time for the integration with Dust. If people moan about it too much CCP just go for a full server restart and blame it on a hardware failure making it their choice whether to play the new and improved eve.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#998 - 2012-09-03 20:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Traedar wrote:


Also I think one point I'm trying to make is, they should not be collector's items any more than a Raven BPO should be.


you dont really get what a collector is im afraid. Nobdoy calls T2 BPO`s out as collector items but for the pure fact that they are rare (there are like 50 tounry ships of each but only 15-20 T2 ships per kind) and cannot be replaced.

Traedar wrote:

they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected


you and your dramatic statements about thing beeing unique in a certain way.... fine, a t2 BPO is the only thing that can make T2 items without using a copy in the game....so? a Freki is the only Rifter Hull class that has a bonus for webbing, boost rifters

try as much as you want, you cant talk away that T2 BPO`s are collector items.

Red Teufel wrote:
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Red Teufel wrote:
eh anything the devs exploited for BoB back in the day should of been removed from game. .


IT has been reomved from the game... I think it were only 5ish BPO wich were kinda bad anyways (except the Sabre BPO ofc)
but all of it has been removed fro mthe game and 5-6 years later we could rly stop bring that **** up

you're pretty stupid to think ccp has a way to track that. why do you think the devs havn't spoken about how many of the t2 bpos are there in game are.

well, u must have missed the full story then, as CCP got hacked and it was published to everyone by a third party and even by CCP at a later date, what the dev illegaly brought into the game.

shar'ra phone home
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#999 - 2012-09-03 21:04:37 UTC
No one complains about rare hulls because rare hulls are easily popped or stolen if they are used or shared, The point is that T2BPO's can not be stolen when shared nor can they be destroyed as there is zero reason to move them from a station. A perfect nerf would be to only allow T2BPO's to be used outside high sec and only physically in a pos. This would bring them in line with rare ships. You could keep your t2bpo in a station alongside a unique ship but you should not be able to use it or profit from it.
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#1000 - 2012-09-03 21:07:09 UTC
Why is this thread still going? CCP is not going to remove them, quit whining about it.

They really need to give more out, if you ask me Big smile