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Eve's Death Knell

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-09-03 06:52:40 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I run level 4 missions to pay for lo-sec pvp, which I enjoy but do very very badly.

I make about 30 mill per hour running missions.

If folk in null sec think this is a high income level, then the isk rewards in null sec must be simply awful.



Nullsec ratting income isn't much higher. 30mil is the average.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-09-03 06:55:11 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
So the Titan nerfs increased HI SEC population?!?!?!?! You are so full of it you must have brown eyes.


How were the titan nerfs a nerf to nullsec? They were a nerf to titans.

The sanctum nerf and the addition of incursions that followed did increase hisec population, though.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#63 - 2012-09-03 06:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Jax Bederen wrote:
Hmm I dont see much if any hate from high sec players to low/null, to them they simply don't exist and do whatever it is they do out there. Though some low/null seem to be obsessed with high sec players.

.


What probably pisses offthe NULLers is that many in HI SEC don't care about them so they get this 'short man complex' & demand HI SEC be nerfed into non existsance. Null whiners wanting to nerf the HI SEC part of sanbox sort of remind me of how my baby sister would always follow me around & when I ignored her she'd start crying then poop in her diapers ( yes I imagine James315 with a very heavy diaper right now with tears in his eyes) .
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-09-03 07:01:01 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
What probably pisses offthe NULLers is that many in HI SEC don't care about them so they get this 'short man complex' & demand HI SEC be nerfed into non existsance. Null whiners wanting to nerf the HI SEC part of sanbox sort of remind mel how my baby sister would always follow me around & when I ignored her she'd start crying then poop in her diapers ( yes I imagine James315 with a very heavy diaper right now with tears in his eyes) .


but why do you feel entitled to nullsec-level rewards in the starting area

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#65 - 2012-09-03 07:02:00 UTC
Andski wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
So the Titan nerfs increased HI SEC population?!?!?!?! You are so full of it you must have brown eyes.


How were the titan nerfs a nerf to nullsec? They were a nerf to titans.

The sanctum nerf and the addition of incursions that followed did increase hisec population, though.


Sanctum nerf came 6+ months after theIncursion sites started. Hi SEC did not increase WH space did according to Dr E, no?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#66 - 2012-09-03 07:06:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
What probably pisses offthe NULLers is that many in HI SEC don't care about them so they get this 'short man complex' & demand HI SEC be nerfed into non existsance. Null whiners wanting to nerf the HI SEC part of sanbox sort of remind mel how my baby sister would always follow me around & when I ignored her she'd start crying then poop in her diapers ( yes I imagine James315 with a very heavy diaper right now with tears in his eyes) .


but why do you feel entitled to nullsec-level rewards in the starting area


HI SEC is not the starting area it is just part of the sandbox which contributes to the MMO as a whole. I refuse to accept that the ENDGAME OF EVE IS NULL SEC
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-09-03 07:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
DarthNefarius wrote:
HI SEC is not the starting area it is just part of the sandbox which contributes to the MMO as a whole. I refuse to accept that the ENDGAME OF EVE IS NULL SEC


So new characters don't start out in highsec? Nullsec is not necessarily the endgame but you shouldn't cry about the reward levels of riskier space being taken away from hisec.

You feel entitled to 150m/hour risk-free vanguard blitzing but CCP is not obligated to deliver that entitlement.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Josef Djugashvilis
#68 - 2012-09-03 07:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
For me, null sec needs to be made more attractive in terms of overall gameplay for the solo players/small corps.

I have great respect for those who have the organisational skills and the willingness to put in the many many hours needed to claim and hold onto null sec space, Goons, Test etc.

As a manager in a large multi-national company in real life, (jeez, I hate my job) I play Eve solo so that I can escape any sort of organised structure in my leisure time.

I would spend more time in null if there was more to it for solo players/small corps other than seeing how long it takes to get ganked.

Not playing in null is not being risk averse so much as being averse to dying for no particular purpose.

Give the solo/small corps some sort of reason/stake in null and we will go there.

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alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
#69 - 2012-09-03 07:19:23 UTC
Risk in null

Station lose, fire sale... move on.

Risk while that is not going on?

Well to quote a test buddy

"I can pretty much rat in *** afk"

Ya null is sooooooooooooooooo bad.

TBH HS and the HS corp deal is much more dangerous than null

1 red / nuet in null = massive dock up, cloak... etc.

HS is full of em... you never know if you are going to be ganked... etc...

To cry about null risk vs reward is a joke.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-09-03 07:20:04 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
For me, null sec needs to be made more attractive in terms of overall gameplay for the solo players/small corps.

I have great respect for those who have the organisational skills and the willingness to put in the many many hours need to claim and hold onto null sec space, Goons, Test etc.

As a manager in a large multi-national company in real life, (jeez, I hate my job) I play Eve solo so that I can escape any sort of organised structure in my leisure time.

I would spend more time in null if there was more to it for solo players/small corps other than seeing how long it takes to get ganked.

Not playing in null is not being risk averse so much as being averse to dying for no particular purpose.

Give the solo/small corps some sort of reason/stake in null and we will go there.



NPC 0.0 is certainly suitable to smaller groups. Most line members really don't have to deal with "politics" like at their RL workplaces.

If huge fights between hundreds don't appeal to you, try wormholes or NPC 0.0. There are options other than "sov nullsec or highsec."

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-09-03 07:23:32 UTC
alittlebirdy wrote:
you never know if you are going to be ganked... etc...


getting suicide ganked in empire is ridiculously easy to avoid but hiseccers feel that making themselves a shiny target and getting ganked because they refuse to make any bit of effort to protect themselves means that hisec is risky

anybody who does anything AFK in nullsec does so with the understanding that they may lose their ship, so they just mitigate that by using dirt cheap ships (what they define as "cheap" is entirely subjective)

sorry your logic is flawed

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Josef Djugashvilis
#72 - 2012-09-03 07:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
This is something I have had at the back of my mind for some time, so I may as well post it.

Null sec folk often talk about risk versus reward.

Market traders, a play style I admire greatly, (my market knowledge extends to selling faction ammo, more bother than it is worth really) face no 'risk' in terms of losing ships or controlled space etc but can and do make some of the biggest fortunes in Eve.

Should this be nerfed as it is a low risk way of making isk?

This is not a signature.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-09-03 07:37:04 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
This is something I have had at the back of my mind for some time, so I may as well post it.

Null sec folk often talk about risk versus reward.

Market traders, a play style I admire greatly, (my market knowledge extends to selling faction ammo, more bother than it is worth really) face no 'risk' in terms of losing ships or controlled space etc but can and do make some of the biggest frotunes in Eve.

Should this be nerfed as it is a low risk way of making isk?


The risk in market trading is there, it's just not a risk that generates killmails when it manifests itself.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Myxx
The Scope
#74 - 2012-09-03 07:46:58 UTC
You see those concord ships? They are, by and large, the ONLY reason most carebears can even undock without being ruthlessly murdered anywhere in Empire space.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-09-03 07:57:03 UTC
Myxx wrote:
You see those concord ships? They are, by and large, the ONLY reason most carebears can even undock without being ruthlessly murdered anywhere in Empire space.


They also seem to be the only reason why most carebears can be ganked without being able to preempt the gankers!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Josef Djugashvilis
#76 - 2012-09-03 08:02:29 UTC
My final thoughts on this matter.

Nerfing hi-sec will not make null sec more attractive, it will simply make hi-sec less profitable.

It is false logic to assume that nerfing hi-sec will, in some weird way, yet to be explained, mean more folk will move to null.

Most folk play Eve in an overall context, it is not by any means as simple as nerfing hi-sec income equals more folk in null.

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James Vayne
Section 9 SFU
#77 - 2012-09-03 08:34:18 UTC
To re-iterate, and to summarise what is pretty much the founding tenet of eve online. Risk Vs Reward.

High sec is low risk and, therefore, is low reward. It is not as low reward as it has been in the past years, which has had a palpable effect on the enterprise in Nullsec and Lowsec and it is this that should be addressed.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#78 - 2012-09-03 08:43:36 UTC
James 315 wrote:
I don't think there's so much an issue of hate between the two groups as a problem with game imbalance that most of us recognize: There's too much reward for too little risk in highsec, and "carebear"-type players seem very eager to maintain or worsen the imbalance, to everyone's detriment. Cool


Null sec is THE player generated content right?

Null sec has the blatantly highest income potential in this game.

If null sec players fail to achieve such highest income in game and they are those creating their content, how can you blame people living elsewhere?

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#79 - 2012-09-03 08:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
James Vayne wrote:
To re-iterate, and to summarise what is pretty much the founding tenet of eve online. Risk Vs Reward.

High sec is low risk and, therefore, is low reward. It is not as low reward as it has been in the past years, which has had a palpable effect on the enterprise in Nullsec and Lowsec and it is this that should be addressed.


False.

In the past, 2-3 nerfs ago, hi sec L4 missions yielded > 100M per hour.
In the past L5 missions were in hi sec for even higher income per hour.
In the (recent-ish) past incursions delivered > 100M per hour.

"Past" is the keyword. Nerfs happened.

Only thing that became somewhat more profitable was hi sec mining, and this because null seccers organized and sponsored mass destruction of mining ships and this led to higher income to the few who survived.
Even then, that's not an ISK faucet, since minerals are worth zero ISK per se, only demand and supply decides a value.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#80 - 2012-09-03 08:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
My final thoughts on this matter.

Nerfing hi-sec will not make null sec more attractive, it will simply make hi-sec less profitable.

It is false logic to assume that nerfing hi-sec will, in some weird way, yet to be explained, mean more folk will move to null.

Most folk play Eve in an overall context, it is not by any means as simple as nerfing hi-sec income equals more folk in null.


The "logic" is:

"Null sec is smelly poo. If we make hi sec like worse poo, then people will love to come to smelly poo".

Even an idiot can see how it's going to work.

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