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Any advice on my first mining barge?
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Zartraz Vardash
Knavery Inc.
#1 - 2012-09-02 18:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zartraz Vardash
So I will have my mining barge skills done in a about six days and I am stuck debating which one to get. I am not sure if I should go retriever or procurer. I will more than likely be in mining in high sec for a while longer as well I am only in my first couple weeks of playing and still have a ton to learn about the game.

So should I go with the faster miner with the bigger hold that should be awesome as long as you know no one shoots at me or go with the slower miner smaller hold with enough tank that should help me survive being attacked?
Ham Akachi
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-09-02 18:50:07 UTC
There's really pretty little danger, in high sec, for either in my experience. Few people see the benefit in suiciding a Retriever/Procurer. I'd vote for the Retriever. Hit me up in game though, i'll loan you one for a test if you like.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#3 - 2012-09-02 18:56:22 UTC
Ham Akachi wrote:
There's really pretty little danger, in high sec, for either in my experience. Few people see the benefit in suiciding a Retriever/Procurer. I'd vote for the Retriever. Hit me up in game though, i'll loan you one for a test if you like.


A Catalyst, even with damage rigs, only comes to about 2 mil.

A Retriever, even T1 fit, comes to about 24 mil, + more if it's got a full Ore Bay.

Miners cry the same whether you're ganking their T1 Barge or their T2 Exhumer.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#4 - 2012-09-02 18:57:26 UTC
Zartraz Vardash wrote:
So I will have my mining barge skills done in a about six days and I am stuck debating which one to get. I am not sure if I should go retriever or procurer. I will more than likely be in mining in high sec for a while longer as well I am only in my first couple weeks of playing and still have a ton to learn about the game.

So should I go with the faster miner with the bigger hold that should be awesome as long as you know no one shoots at me or go with the slower miner smaller hold with enough tank that should help me survive being attacked?



Depends on how often you want to not pay attention to what you are doing.

I prefer Procurers, but I also use a spreadsheet to micromanage my cycle times.

Profit favors the prepared
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#5 - 2012-09-02 19:07:07 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Ham Akachi wrote:
There's really pretty little danger, in high sec, for either in my experience. Few people see the benefit in suiciding a Retriever/Procurer. I'd vote for the Retriever. Hit me up in game though, i'll loan you one for a test if you like.


A Catalyst, even with damage rigs, only comes to about 2 mil.

A Retriever, even T1 fit, comes to about 24 mil, + more if it's got a full Ore Bay.

Miners cry the same whether you're ganking their T1 Barge or their T2 Exhumer.


If your target is using strip II's and one or more drop, your gank cats are paid for for several more attempts.

Profit-wise, if I was going to gank mining ships in high-sec, I'd go for a Covetor 1st, Reriever 2nd, Procurer 3rd. Unless I'm missing something, the potential loot drop value would follow that order (not to mention the ease of kill).

Profit favors the prepared
Mindrago Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-09-02 19:23:35 UTC
A Retriever mate,depending on your mining skills you will drag in around 5 mil isk per load.
mkint
#7 - 2012-09-02 22:16:51 UTC
They should have similar yield not counting travel time. The question is your tolerance for loss. Unless you are making yourself a target the retriever will have the effective yield to make it preferable.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-09-02 22:36:45 UTC
Basically, a decently-fit Procurer is probably less likely to be ganked, because suicide gankers will have less chance of breaking a Procurer's tank before Concord shows - higher risk, and probably less profit.

A Retriever will earn out quicker, because of its larger cargohold allowing longer loiter times in belts (and higher yield due to its ability to fit more upgrades in low slots, if you're willing to sacrifice tank), but it's a softer target if gankers come by.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Sturmwolke
#9 - 2012-09-03 05:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Zartraz Vardash wrote:
So should I go with the faster miner with the bigger hold that should be awesome as long as you know no one shoots at me or go with the slower miner smaller hold with enough tank that should help me survive being attacked?


The single most defining factor is - How often do you prefer to return to station to dump the ore?

In terms of yield (not overall yield which takes into account the time wasted in returning to station), the Retriever can be fitted with 2-3x MLU, but doing so will turn its tank into paper (which is easy kill for 1-2 gank destroyers). A reasonably fit Retriever (DCU + Reinforced Bulkhead + MLU) will have the SAME mining rate as a tanky fit Procurer (DCU + MLU).

For ice mining, imo, the Procurer holds a slight edge vs a reasonably fit Retriever (i.e those that don't fit 3x MLU) in terms of straight yield .. IF you're fine with the ~20-30mins return to station cycle. This can be mitigated with a hauler alt - so the overall effect is less risky mining, slightly more yield. You can fit 2x MLU, Ice Harvester rig, Processor Overclocking rig and still maintain a reasonable battleship class tank (that will require multiple gank destroyers/tier-3 battlecruisers)

Gankers will go for easy kills - there's plenty around. Covetors/Retrievers will be favorite targets. If anyone loses a Procurer in highsec to gankers, then either they didn't fit reasonably or the gankers is just griefing that one person for several reasons. Ganking reasonably fit Procurers will never be fun nor profitable.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#10 - 2012-09-03 06:26:55 UTC
Depending on how much you can afford to lose if you get ganked. you can go into a belt 100 times and never get ganked or your first time get ganked so if you can afford to replace you retriever with all mods right then and there then a retriever is a good choice for Max cargo, but no simi AFK in the retriever UNLESS you mission mine, but if you want to be simi AFK the procurer is a good choice as well if you do lvl 1 or 2 missions your procurer will easily tank rats then just mine the spawn belt and jetcan the roids to can when you got 2 filled come back with a hauler then rinse and repeat DO NOT JETCAN MINE in a regular belt.
Robert De'Arneth
#11 - 2012-09-04 13:48:20 UTC
Zartraz Vardash wrote:
So I will have my mining barge skills done in a about six days and I am stuck debating which one to get. I am not sure if I should go retriever or procurer. I will more than likely be in mining in high sec for a while longer as well I am only in my first couple weeks of playing and still have a ton to learn about the game.

So should I go with the faster miner with the bigger hold that should be awesome as long as you know no one shoots at me or go with the slower miner smaller hold with enough tank that should help me survive being attacked?



Hi-Sec mining , Solo Ret, Mining ops with corp Cov. No reason not to have both, unless you are just going to solo mine. Do not even think about ganking. With a retriver you can buy a new one every 3 loads. Send me message in game, we are recruiting, we do corp mining opps almost every day, we also set up fleet boost when mining ops are not going on. The ISK flies at you. :)

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-04 15:26:35 UTC
I really dont think you need the procurer in high sec. IF you were null sec mining and actually needed to tank beefy rats I'd understand. Set your d scan to 2AU out and set it to 360. Have an overview tab you can switch to that has only ships, or common gank ships selected. Check your dscan regularly. If something like a tornado talos, catalyst something like that is inbound warp off. Just keep aligning to stuff and you should keep gankers at bay.

I never understood why solo miners cried so much about high sec gankers in the first place, theres so many common sense ways to shirk them.

Well I suppose the ones who knew that never complained.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.
Mila Hydraxize
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-09-17 09:52:27 UTC
Just ended up on this conversation and I’m facing quite of the same choice as Zartraz at the moment.

The Procurer has got 1 High Slot and 3 “Upgrade Hardpoints”. Can anyone explain what one can fit into these harpoints? I’ve been through many forums and tutorials without really understand the difference between rigs and hardpoint….

Basically, can you fit any additional miner laser on an upgrade hardpoint or not?

Thanks!
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-09-17 10:09:52 UTC
Mila Hydraxize wrote:
Just ended up on this conversation and I’m facing quite of the same choice as Zartraz at the moment.

The Procurer has got 1 High Slot and 3 “Upgrade Hardpoints”. Can anyone explain what one can fit into these harpoints? I’ve been through many forums and tutorials without really understand the difference between rigs and hardpoint….

Basically, can you fit any additional miner laser on an upgrade hardpoint or not?

Thanks!
Upgrade hardpoints are rig slots, can't fit anything else than rigs onto them.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Mila Hydraxize
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-09-17 10:51:49 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
Upgrade hardpoints are rig slots, can't fit anything else than rigs onto them.



Therefore you can fit only one mining laser on a Procurer... It’s not really efficient isn’t it. A simple frigate with two lasers can do a better job.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#16 - 2012-09-17 11:05:16 UTC
Mila Hydraxize wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
Upgrade hardpoints are rig slots, can't fit anything else than rigs onto them.



Therefore you can fit only one mining laser on a Procurer... It’s not really efficient isn’t it. A simple frigate with two lasers can do a better job.



Except a Procurer using Strip miners. Not mining lasers. They pull down considerably more ore with a slightly longer cycle time.

540m3 base vs 40m3 base
3 minute cycle time vs 1 minute cycle time.

So about 4.5 times better each.

Then there's the 200% bonus a procurer gets to Yield. (Retriever gets 50%. It's so they all have the equivalent of 3 strips)




Upgrade hard points are for rigs, as stated. At one time cargo rigs made sense. Now, not really. Use Shield rigs. Resistance and Extender rigs make the most sense. Either plug a resist hole (EM mostly), go for the most HP you can, or boost resists against common gank ammo (thermal/kinetic from blasters)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mila Hydraxize
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-09-17 11:20:30 UTC
Thanks very much the explanation Steve, I didn’t know Strip miners was specific to mining barges and exhumers, now that makes more sense.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#18 - 2012-09-17 11:31:16 UTC
Ham Akachi wrote:
There's really pretty little danger, in high sec, for either in my experience. Few people see the benefit in suiciding a Retriever/Procurer. I'd vote for the Retriever. Hit me up in game though, i'll loan you one for a test if you like.


Retriever, yes. If the OP contacts me by EVEmail, I'll give him a small list of very safe systems he can mine in. Far from Jita, but fairly profitable.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-09-18 09:58:26 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Ham Akachi wrote:
There's really pretty little danger, in high sec, for either in my experience. Few people see the benefit in suiciding a Retriever/Procurer. I'd vote for the Retriever. Hit me up in game though, i'll loan you one for a test if you like.


Retriever, yes. If the OP contacts me by EVEmail, I'll give him a small list of very safe systems he can mine in. Far from Jita, but fairly profitable.
Heh, that's way less of a hassle to bait miners instead of hunting for them, gonna buy some new destroyers...Pirate

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Seth Slothian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-09-25 21:30:58 UTC
Robert De'Arneth wrote:
Zartraz Vardash wrote:
So I will have my mining barge skills done in a about six days and I am stuck debating which one to get. I am not sure if I should go retriever or procurer. I will more than likely be in mining in high sec for a while longer as well I am only in my first couple weeks of playing and still have a ton to learn about the game.

So should I go with the faster miner with the bigger hold that should be awesome as long as you know no one shoots at me or go with the slower miner smaller hold with enough tank that should help me survive being attacked?



Hi-Sec mining , Solo Ret, Mining ops with corp Cov. No reason not to have both, unless you are just going to solo mine. Do not even think about ganking. With a retriver you can buy a new one every 3 loads. Send me message in game, we are recruiting, we do corp mining opps almost every day, we also set up fleet boost when mining ops are not going on. The ISK flies at you. :)


Would you be interested in having me? I am training for an Orca now and am looking for a better Mining corp Mine has terrible leadership. And very little activity.
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