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Crime & Punishment

 
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Can Flipping, disappointing

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Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-08-18 23:34:10 UTC
the only thing disappointing about can flipping is the suckers who fall for it
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#42 - 2012-08-20 02:13:40 UTC
This thread has been made irrelevant by mining barge changes.

The only can-flippers and can-baiters I've seen in the last week have all been hanging out in front of newbie stations (Which is completely against CCP TOS, not that this stops anyone).

New crimewatch system (once in place) will make can-flipping a hobby of only the truly suicidal, as fleets or corporate affiliation will become irrelevant - criminal flags will be universal, allowing for anyone to inflict justice on evil-doers at whim (or until their 15 minutes are up).

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-08-20 02:25:56 UTC
OP.

Just incase you weren't aware of the definition of Jettion, i've listed it below for you.


jet·ti·son
   [jet-uh-suhn, -zuhn] Show IPA

verb (used with object)
1.
to cast (goods) overboard in order to lighten a vessel or aircraft or to improve its stability in an emergency.

2.
to throw off (something) as an obstacle or burden; discard.

3.
Cards . to discard (an unwanted card or cards).


If you actually want the ore, perhaps you should use SECURE containers or an Orca..

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
Vrykolakasis
Sparrowhawks Corp
#44 - 2012-08-20 06:51:45 UTC
I need to read more about this crimewatch system. From what I'm reading here, I don't like it.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#45 - 2012-08-20 14:19:37 UTC
Thread closed because of uninformative.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-09-03 05:01:02 UTC
Have your guards drop the jetcans.

Solutions.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#47 - 2012-09-03 06:19:13 UTC
You know whats funny?

When the new Crimewatch takes effect, the OP will be back bitching even more.

For those who don't know about Crimewatch, in a nutshell...you flip a can....EVERYBODY in the system can shoot you, for the next 15 minutes.

Debate currently rages about whether jumping to another system will/should clear the aggro timer.

Personally, I don't see why CCP simply doesn't add a 'duel' function....work it like a micro-wardec, 1v1 only, challenger has to pay a fee (set it up like the convo fee/filter), if the other person accepts, they get a 3 minute timer to get ready, and then they go red to each other. Neither party does any damage to the other within 15 miutes, duel expires.

Bang, yer done.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-09-03 22:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Mike Adoulin wrote:
You know whats funny?

When the new Crimewatch takes effect, the OP will be back bitching even more.

For those who don't know about Crimewatch, in a nutshell...you flip a can....EVERYBODY in the system can shoot you, for the next 15 minutes.



Ehhhh....thing about can miners is, they're using a can because they're alone/don't want to work with others. Most of the times I've successfully flipped, the screaming in local didn't start until well after I'd stolen the ore/killed/ransomed the miner. It's as if they were driven to that last, desperate measure, going against everything in their solo PvE nature, doing what they should have done in the first place by looking for help/tipping off the other bears.

Global flag for can theft does not bother me and it shouldn't bother anyone else.
Abannan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-09-04 04:13:45 UTC
Jadeleth wrote:
CONCORD is there to protect from PVP and someone is using it to do PVP? Oh come on!
.

False
Concord does not protect, they punish. It's a very subtle difference
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
#50 - 2012-09-05 03:21:24 UTC
Quote me on this but if some "funny" guy is flying around stealing others property for the purpose of finding pvp targets, shouldn't he be fair game for other players to shoot the thief, I mean hes trying to get into pvp, he should have everyone around be able to shoot him for his crimes?
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#51 - 2012-09-05 16:15:57 UTC
This suggestion of yours only has one outcome, Pirates will start fleeting with out of corp alts to can bait miners, and then reverse jetcan gank them. You will actually see a RISE in hs pvp through jet can mining. spreading agression across a fleet through jetcan flipping is the WORST IDEA EVER if you want to make hs safer... Why not just ban jetcans? That would REALLY put a stop to can flippping Roll
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-09-08 00:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Blastil wrote:
This suggestion of yours only has one outcome, Pirates will start fleeting with out of corp alts to can bait miners, and then reverse jetcan gank them. You will actually see a RISE in hs pvp through jet can mining. spreading agression across a fleet through jetcan flipping is the WORST IDEA EVER if you want to make hs safer... Why not just ban jetcans? That would REALLY put a stop to can flippping Roll


While we're at it, let's ban barges/exhumers/freighters/industrials/transports from highsec to put a stop to suicide ganking. Blink
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-09-09 01:06:55 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
I don't high sec unless necessary but doesn't it warn you with an obtrusive pop up before you do something that will flag you?


Trying to steal from a can indeed does warn you about getting flagged. I think the poop-up appear as soon as you open the can. And it's usually not worth it to steal back from a can dropped by a pirate as those are usually bait to flag you so they can safely destroy your ship.
loyalanon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#54 - 2012-09-14 05:45:34 UTC
Funniest forum thread ever.

RECAP:

Some guy got can flipped, tried taking his stuff back. got PWNED.

Cries on the forums about it.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#55 - 2012-09-14 06:22:54 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
You know whats funny?

When the new Crimewatch takes effect, the OP will be back bitching even more.

For those who don't know about Crimewatch, in a nutshell...you flip a can....EVERYBODY in the system can shoot you, for the next 15 minutes.

Debate currently rages about whether jumping to another system will/should clear the aggro timer.

Personally, I don't see why CCP simply doesn't add a 'duel' function....work it like a micro-wardec, 1v1 only, challenger has to pay a fee (set it up like the convo fee/filter), if the other person accepts, they get a 3 minute timer to get ready, and then they go red to each other. Neither party does any damage to the other within 15 miutes, duel expires.

Bang, yer done.


erm... with the current mechanics, isn't that just called 'being in fleet'?

If both sides WANT to duel, its easy. flip a can, or fleet up. Don't see why they need to add more mechanics for that. As for the Crimewatch, I'll be very interested to see how that turns out. I expect I'll be seeing some newbie wanna-be pirates screaming up a storm for the first couple of months when the whole system goes red on them lol. Twisted

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-09-14 09:08:58 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
You know whats funny?

When the new Crimewatch takes effect, the OP will be back bitching even more.

For those who don't know about Crimewatch, in a nutshell...you flip a can....EVERYBODY in the system can shoot you, for the next 15 minutes.

Debate currently rages about whether jumping to another system will/should clear the aggro timer.

Personally, I don't see why CCP simply doesn't add a 'duel' function....work it like a micro-wardec, 1v1 only, challenger has to pay a fee (set it up like the convo fee/filter), if the other person accepts, they get a 3 minute timer to get ready, and then they go red to each other. Neither party does any damage to the other within 15 miutes, duel expires.

Bang, yer done.


erm... with the current mechanics, isn't that just called 'being in fleet'?

If both sides WANT to duel, its easy. flip a can, or fleet up. Don't see why they need to add more mechanics for that. As for the Crimewatch, I'll be very interested to see how that turns out. I expect I'll be seeing some newbie wanna-be pirates screaming up a storm for the first couple of months when the whole system goes red on them lol. Twisted

I don't know who started this myth, but I want to kill them.


BEING IN A FLEET WITH SOMEONE DOES NOT MEAN THEY AUTOMATICALY GAIN KILLRIGHTS TO PEOPLE WHEN YOU DO.

If you and some random guy are in a fleet, and said random guy isn't in your corp; then I come along and steal your can. Only you get to shoot me without taking a CONCORD to the knee. Your friend has to sit and watch or perform some sort of remote assistance on you and hope I shoot him once he starts flashing red.
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#57 - 2012-09-14 10:09:12 UTC
Jadeleth wrote:
I've recently observed a can flipping - piracy action, I haven't lost anything since I haven't taken part in it but I've to make some observation and give some suggestions...

first of all let me state clearly that I think that with this flagging system ccp is allowing pvp in high security areas, which are supposed to be places for players who don't like PVP. Therefore, I hope this is a mistake made by some game designers and not the right way to play.
(it would really be a shame, CCP aiding piracy and ruining the game to some players for what? a few more ships blowned?)

first problem
a fleet is made up:
A, member of corporation "Example", is giving mining bonuses and hauling collected ores to a safe place.
B, also member of corporation "Example", is guarding for rats and thieves.
C, member of corporation "not Example, another one", is mining and putting extracted ores into jet-cans.

and there's another player:
D, the canflipper.

well, if D does can flipping on a jet-can made by C, only C and the members of "not Example, another one" corporation can retaliate by opening fire on D.
A and B can only watch their can disappear and should ignore the new opened yellow one with some ore inside that's magically not their own.

so, if ownership spreads over the fleet why don't rights to defend the owned do the same thing?

fast answer: to aid pirates that want to do PVP and are not on top of PVP areas (and screwing the game to the others that were there to avoid PVPers) - please tell me that's not the correct answer!

possible solutions:
1 - expand the right to defend containers also to fleet members or at least fleet members in the same grid of the container.
2 - mark the containers in white only for the players who really own them (in this case only for player C), this will crush intercorporation fleets but doing nothing isn't better.

second problem
if C manages to kill D and retrieve his stuff (using the same characters of the above example) it shouldn't be considered thievery; member of D's corporation shouldn't be allowed to shoot at C.
in the case I've seen, B was trying to defend C and he also got "CONCORDED", as to say that, in the game, police not only ignore thievery but also protect thieves!

possible solution:
after the theft has been committed, mark every container the thief has used (put in / take out) during the last fifteen minutes as "contested" between him and the victims.

if he's a regular thief he'll just pick up what he can hold and run away; if he flips cans it's obvious he's looking for dogfights (again, in the WRONG place).

While searching on-line I've also found some hints on "how to CONCORD your targets"... you know that it shouldn't even be possible, don't you? CONCORD is there to protect from PVP and someone is using it to do PVP? Oh come on!



Thank you for reading.


didn't Barges and Exhumers just get buffed to help you, jet can mining is no longer required, do some barges now not the carge space bigger than a jet can anyway?

to be honest, this again sounds like yet another miner who isn't able to change or adapt, so they free coming to CandP and moaning about it, making themselves look both foolish and poor at the game.

CCP have never ever said HS is safe, it's just a bit safer than LS 0.0 and WH space.

If you want a space ship game that gives your true safe playing, try Star Trek Online... eve is not for you.
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-09-14 13:43:00 UTC
I loved mining when I started out in EVE. It gave me time to digest all the information coming at me and figure out what I wanted to do with my character, while making money. I knew I wanted to be an explorer (I did all the tutorials) but instead of diving into it straight on I read up on it and spoke to experienced explorers and got tips. It paid off big time. Now I consider myself a veteran explorer and have made billions from it, while having fun.

I jetcanned of course, starting out, we all do it. Nothing wrong with it as it teaches you a valuable lesson early on: EVE is about risk vs. reward. Even in exploration, the truly amazing finds are in low, null sec, and WH space.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Silas Grief
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-09-14 17:21:00 UTC
Jadeleth wrote:
I've recently observed a can flipping - piracy action, I haven't lost anything since I haven't taken part in it but I've to make some observation and give some suggestions...

first of all let me state clearly that I think that with this flagging system ccp is allowing pvp in high security areas, which are supposed to be places for players who don't like PVP. Therefore, I hope this is a mistake made by some game designers and not the right way to play.
(it would really be a shame, CCP aiding piracy and ruining the game to some players for what? a few more ships blowned?)

first problem
a fleet is made up:
A, member of corporation "Example", is giving mining bonuses and hauling collected ores to a safe place.
B, also member of corporation "Example", is guarding for rats and thieves.
C, member of corporation "not Example, another one", is mining and putting extracted ores into jet-cans.

and there's another player:
D, the canflipper.

well, if D does can flipping on a jet-can made by C, only C and the members of "not Example, another one" corporation can retaliate by opening fire on D.
A and B can only watch their can disappear and should ignore the new opened yellow one with some ore inside that's magically not their own.

so, if ownership spreads over the fleet why don't rights to defend the owned do the same thing?

fast answer: to aid pirates that want to do PVP and are not on top of PVP areas (and screwing the game to the others that were there to avoid PVPers) - please tell me that's not the correct answer!

possible solutions:
1 - expand the right to defend containers also to fleet members or at least fleet members in the same grid of the container.
2 - mark the containers in white only for the players who really own them (in this case only for player C), this will crush intercorporation fleets but doing nothing isn't better.

second problem
if C manages to kill D and retrieve his stuff (using the same characters of the above example) it shouldn't be considered thievery; member of D's corporation shouldn't be allowed to shoot at C.
in the case I've seen, B was trying to defend C and he also got "CONCORDED", as to say that, in the game, police not only ignore thievery but also protect thieves!

possible solution:
after the theft has been committed, mark every container the thief has used (put in / take out) during the last fifteen minutes as "contested" between him and the victims.

if he's a regular thief he'll just pick up what he can hold and run away; if he flips cans it's obvious he's looking for dogfights (again, in the WRONG place).

While searching on-line I've also found some hints on "how to CONCORD your targets"... you know that it shouldn't even be possible, don't you? CONCORD is there to protect from PVP and someone is using it to do PVP? Oh come on!



Thank you for reading.


Cry more.
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#60 - 2012-09-15 11:44:36 UTC
[quote=Jadeleth]I've recently observed a can flipping - piracy action, I haven't lost anything since I haven't taken part in it but I've to make some observation and give some suggestions...

first of all let me state clearly that I think that with this flagging system ccp is allowing pvp in high security areas, which are supposed to be places for players who don't like PVP.

Where did you come up with this ridiculous idea? No one has guaranteed safety to anyone in the game of eve merely because they are in high sec. PVP certainly takes place in high sec in the form of war decs, suicide ganks, etc. Nothing in the rules of this game or in any of the documentation for this game suggests that high sec is "safe for those who dont want to pvp." This is a PVP game. Period.

The purpose of allowing can flips in eve is simple. It allows two players an opportunity to do consensual pvp in high security without risking getting concorded.

The problem is, however, that many mining bears in high sec like to jet can mine. They open themselves up to being can flipped when they do so. If they were to use secured cargo containers (properly secured and pw protected) they would be safe from can flippers. They would still be at risk from suicide gankers and war decs.