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Heavies vs HAM's, need experienced advice
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2012-09-02 13:55:17 UTC
I am slowly gathering skills on the missile side up (have oodles on gunnery and ships, ship support etc), and am trying to figure if it is better to fit HAM's vs Heavies for close in (15 km or less) fighting.

Though HAM's, on paper, do better damage, I am not convinced.
When you factor in missile speed, explosion radius, and explosion velocity, are HAM's really superior to Heavies in a close in fight?
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#2 - 2012-09-02 14:13:08 UTC
factor explosion radius? it's the same
explosion velocity? bigger with ham's so better.
far better ROF with ham's.

only thing that looks worse for ham's is missile velocity.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#3 - 2012-09-02 14:22:53 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
factor explosion radius? it's the same
explosion velocity? bigger with ham's so better.
far better ROF with ham's.

only thing that looks worse for ham's is missile velocity.


Errr....not sure what you are looking at.

Comparing a Fury Heavy to a Rage HAM.

With my current skills (not all 5's):

Missile Velocity:
Heavy: 5625
HAM: 2812.5

Explosion Velocity:
Heavy: 145.5
HAM: 139.5

Explosion Radius :
Heavy: 172 (this will improve to 161.25 with perfect skills on the heavy, but remain static with the HAM)
HAM: 180
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#4 - 2012-09-02 14:42:52 UTC
On which ship? Some get a range bonus...

What are you trying to shoot with them?

They both have their seperate users, they are good good...

But at different things.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#5 - 2012-09-02 14:53:54 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
On which ship? Some get a range bonus...

What are you trying to shoot with them?

They both have their seperate users, they are good good...

But at different things.


Let's assume that they are for small gang work, where the target's are unknown.
I know that many ships get a heavy bonus (eg Drake), and some a HAM bonus (eg Sacrilege), and some both.

I am trying to understand under neutral conditions what is better.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-09-02 15:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
ham is a khanid (amarr) weapon system, unguided, higher dps, short range

HML is a caldari system, guided, long range

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Rynnik
Evasion Gaming
The Ancients.
#7 - 2012-09-02 15:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rynnik
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Belthazor4011 wrote:
On which ship? Some get a range bonus...

What are you trying to shoot with them?

They both have their seperate users, they are good good...

But at different things.


Let's assume that they are for small gang work, where the target's are unknown.
I know that many ships get a heavy bonus (eg Drake), and some a HAM bonus (eg Sacrilege), and some both.

I am trying to understand under neutral conditions what is better.


HAMs can do great applied damage in the <15km range bracket, but it really depends on what you are fielding and what you are fighting. If it is all small stuff then you will typically end up ahead with the HMLs but if you are fighting BCs and larger then definitely go with the HAMs.

A couple paints and lots of webs do wonders for your damage application with either weapon system, but especially for the HAMs.

So within your 15km range bracket you picked, I would always go with HAMs if I was fighting BCs or BS, had lots of support (both tackle and EWAR), and could be sure to maintain that prefered range. I would always choose HMLs against frigs or armour HACs, without lots of support (tackle and EWAR), and if there was a chance either I or the target could or would open range. Other targets could land somewhere in the middle (again depending on the friendly gang comp).

As a complete aside - hey dins. Big smile
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#8 - 2012-09-02 15:28:13 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Though HAM's, on paper, do better damage, I am not convinced.
When you factor in missile speed, explosion radius, and explosion velocity, are HAM's really superior to Heavies in a close in fight?


It mainly depends on what you're shooting at.

Shooting a webbed-down BS or BC at close range? Definitely HAMs.

Shooting a frigate? HMLs .. and pray.

Shooting a cruiser? Depends ...
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#9 - 2012-09-02 15:36:23 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
nahjustwarpin wrote:
factor explosion radius? it's the same
explosion velocity? bigger with ham's so better.
far better ROF with ham's.

only thing that looks worse for ham's is missile velocity.


Errr....not sure what you are looking at.

Comparing a Fury Heavy to a Rage HAM.

With my current skills (not all 5's):

Missile Velocity:
Heavy: 5625
HAM: 2812.5

Explosion Velocity:
Heavy: 145.5
HAM: 139.5

Explosion Radius :
Heavy: 172 (this will improve to 161.25 with perfect skills on the heavy, but remain static with the HAM)
HAM: 180


at V:
exp velocity
Heavy: 121.5
HAM: 151.5

explosion radius:
Heavy: 93.75
HAM: 125

so exp radius is not actually the same as i said. somewhat sompensates with better dps
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-09-02 15:55:34 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I am slowly gathering skills on the missile side up (have oodles on gunnery and ships, ship support etc), and am trying to figure if it is better to fit HAM's vs Heavies for close in (15 km or less) fighting.

Though HAM's, on paper, do better damage, I am not convinced.
When you factor in missile speed, explosion radius, and explosion velocity, are HAM's really superior to Heavies in a close in fight?



unless your doing bs hunting stick with heavys for a good few reason.

1) you can lock and fire as much as 80km away
2) the dmg is fairly neglagible unless your spending billions on your ship.
3) certian skills such as guided missle presiction that lowers explosive radius do not afect hams.