These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Its finally happend: ccp killed amarr/minm fw fun
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#301 - 2012-09-01 03:55:35 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I would absolutely hate a reset. It would be a slap in the face. Let's examine some of the content that's been generated since Inferno:


  • Amarr killed a Minmatar Carrier pilot who undocked in Kourm before realizing his militia had lost the system. It was a juicy kill and great drama.

  • Susan Black and Poetic Stan both crowed about how Minmatar were going to get a medal for conquering all the systems. A group of diehard Aussie pilots in Sahtogas pretty much said, "**** you, you shall not pass." Absolutely amazing.

  • Agony Empire lost all of their belongings within hours of joining FW. They dug deep and reqconquered Kamela within a week. Cue Eye of the Tiger music.

  • On the other side of the coin, Minmatar militia absolutely humiliated a nullsec alliance that wanted some quick coin. I think all of us smiled a little.


I want to be in the final push to take Huola. I want to be there when the tide turns. (I was there.. facepalm) What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of Ninlarra! Winter promises to bring 90% of what we want. The LP isk fountain is being reigned in. You have to kill all the NPC's in a plex for the counter to move. You can survive even on Tier One. Plexes will be about PvP more then PvE. If you think missions will still be a problem - go post in the F&I thread as I did that you think so. That's the place to put it.



While I agree the changes will allow us to pvp in plexes they will still best be done in a pve ship while avoiding pvp. Amarr had to kill all the rats in larger ships for a long time. And for that long time it was always most efficient in a pve ship.

CCP passing on the notifications and timer countdown were the 2 most necessary changes - doesn't look like they will happen.

I think allot of the things you list will not be happening now that we get lp for defensive plexing. I don't think agony could have taken back kamela if there was lp for defensive plexing. I don't think we would have been able to take kourm either. I don't think amarr would have 50% of the systems 50% contested if we had lp for defensive plexing. I don't think susan would have been eating crow if there was lp for defensive plexing. (the minmafarm would be farming all our vulnerable systems right now and holding them all with farming alts so they could focus on sahtogas.)

If we are having trouble taking huola and turning the tide when there is no lp for defensive plexing you can forget about it when ccp changes that up.

Pretty much all the good things about the inferno tier system is changing.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Dan Carter Murray
#302 - 2012-09-01 07:25:34 UTC
Ezra Tair wrote:
because I like being the underdog

Are you still the underdog?
have you changed your stance?
Was that a bull **** statement?

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Dan Carter Murray
#303 - 2012-09-01 07:35:07 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Hey if you cant have a reasonable 12 page rant about the state of FW, why not attack each other personally and slag off each others corps and stuff.

Thanks for raising the bar Dan.


No worries. I don't mind shitting all over minmatar posts in any thread since I'm always the one that initiates the shitting on obviously.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#304 - 2012-09-01 10:37:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I would absolutely hate a reset. It would be a slap in the face. Let's examine some of the content that's been generated since Inferno:


  • Amarr killed a Minmatar Carrier pilot who undocked in Kourm before realizing his militia had lost the system. It was a juicy kill and great drama.

  • Susan Black and Poetic Stan both crowed about how Minmatar were going to get a medal for conquering all the systems. A group of diehard Aussie pilots in Sahtogas pretty much said, "**** you, you shall not pass." Absolutely amazing.

  • Agony Empire lost all of their belongings within hours of joining FW. They dug deep and reqconquered Kamela within a week. Cue Eye of the Tiger music.

  • On the other side of the coin, Minmatar militia absolutely humiliated a nullsec alliance that wanted some quick coin. I think all of us smiled a little.


I want to be in the final push to take Huola. I want to be there when the tide turns. (I was there.. facepalm) What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of Ninlarra! Winter promises to bring 90% of what we want. The LP isk fountain is being reigned in. You have to kill all the NPC's in a plex for the counter to move. You can survive even on Tier One. Plexes will be about PvP more then PvE. If you think missions will still be a problem - go post in the F&I thread as I did that you think so. That's the place to put it.



While I agree the changes will allow us to pvp in plexes they will still best be done in a pve ship while avoiding pvp. Amarr had to kill all the rats in larger ships for a long time. And for that long time it was always most efficient in a pve ship.

CCP passing on the notifications and timer countdown were the 2 most necessary changes - doesn't look like they will happen.

I think allot of the things you list will not be happening now that we get lp for defensive plexing. I don't think agony could have taken back kamela if there was lp for defensive plexing. I don't think we would have been able to take kourm either. I don't think amarr would have 50% of the systems 50% contested if we had lp for defensive plexing. I don't think susan would have been eating crow if there was lp for defensive plexing. (the minmafarm would be farming all our vulnerable systems right now and holding them all with farming alts so they could focus on sahtogas.)

If we are having trouble taking huola and turning the tide when there is no lp for defensive plexing you can forget about it when ccp changes that up.

Pretty much all the good things about the inferno tier system is changing.


Crunch the numbers. The first system the Minmatar upgrade will cost 300k LP. The last system will cost 1.2 million LP. The current war zone has the vast majority of Minmatar staging out of Arzad, Huola, Kourm, and Dal. They don't care if Metropolis gets plexed because they'll just spike it. Now it will cost them in both LP they are earning as well as upgrades which will now be very expensive. A large number will have to peel off from the front.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#305 - 2012-09-01 10:53:39 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I would absolutely hate a reset. It would be a slap in the face. Let's examine some of the content that's been generated since Inferno:


  • Amarr killed a Minmatar Carrier pilot who undocked in Kourm before realizing his militia had lost the system. It was a juicy kill and great drama.

  • Susan Black and Poetic Stan both crowed about how Minmatar were going to get a medal for conquering all the systems. A group of diehard Aussie pilots in Sahtogas pretty much said, "**** you, you shall not pass." Absolutely amazing.

  • Agony Empire lost all of their belongings within hours of joining FW. They dug deep and reqconquered Kamela within a week. Cue Eye of the Tiger music.

  • On the other side of the coin, Minmatar militia absolutely humiliated a nullsec alliance that wanted some quick coin. I think all of us smiled a little.


I want to be in the final push to take Huola. I want to be there when the tide turns. (I was there.. facepalm) What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of Ninlarra! Winter promises to bring 90% of what we want. The LP isk fountain is being reigned in. You have to kill all the NPC's in a plex for the counter to move. You can survive even on Tier One. Plexes will be about PvP more then PvE. If you think missions will still be a problem - go post in the F&I thread as I did that you think so. That's the place to put it.



While I agree the changes will allow us to pvp in plexes they will still best be done in a pve ship while avoiding pvp. Amarr had to kill all the rats in larger ships for a long time. And for that long time it was always most efficient in a pve ship.

CCP passing on the notifications and timer countdown were the 2 most necessary changes - doesn't look like they will happen.

I think allot of the things you list will not be happening now that we get lp for defensive plexing. I don't think agony could have taken back kamela if there was lp for defensive plexing. I don't think we would have been able to take kourm either. I don't think amarr would have 50% of the systems 50% contested if we had lp for defensive plexing. I don't think susan would have been eating crow if there was lp for defensive plexing. (the minmafarm would be farming all our vulnerable systems right now and holding them all with farming alts so they could focus on sahtogas.)

If we are having trouble taking huola and turning the tide when there is no lp for defensive plexing you can forget about it when ccp changes that up.

Pretty much all the good things about the inferno tier system is changing.


Crunch the numbers. The first system the Minmatar upgrade will cost 300k LP. The last system will cost 1.2 million LP. The current war zone has the vast majority of Minmatar staging out of Arzad, Huola, Kourm, and Dal. They don't care if Metropolis gets plexed because they'll just spike it. Now it will cost them in both LP they are earning as well as upgrades which will now be very expensive. A large number will have to peel off from the front.


Either people will use the upgrades or to hit the higher tiers or they won't. If the upgrades are too costly to hit the higher tiers then you basically have a situation where again no one cares about plexing, and we are pre inferno.

But lets say so they will just stay one or 2 tiers above us. So they will only get about 2xs as much lp. Why would someone join the side that offers about half the isk?


They are adding lp for defensive plexing. This rule was the only thing that balanced things for the side that was currently losing. What are they doing to replace that balancing mechanism? Currently amarr even though we are decimated numerically is still moving toward a t5 cash out.

Now the system is its best to jump on the side with the highest tiers after they achieve that goal. Because only then do they *start* to get benefit from it.

The current system gives no benefit to people who jump late on the band wagon to the winning side. The proposed system does in droves. Pile on the winning side and make 2xs the lp.

After a bit of shake out there will only be 2 militias. Hopefully they will be wartargets with eachother. But that is not even clear.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#306 - 2012-09-01 11:52:03 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I would absolutely hate a reset. It would be a slap in the face. Let's examine some of the content that's been generated since Inferno:


The enemy of a reset is not what would happen naturally; the enemy of a reset is FW being broken on hour zero. It's about the rollout of a new feature, some of the substance of which is simply going to be imported from the old system.

When T1 frigs get buffed CCP are careful to update blueprints so that an Executioner isn't far cheaper than a Punisher, and they're also careful to update the blueprints in a way that prevents you from creating minerals out of thin air by queueing up a bunch of Executioners pre-buff and instantly reprocessing them post-buff. But when it comes taking a feature, in which the side with a lot of systems is currently cashing out at a higher tier level that it'd just pushed for, and the side with few systems is merely 'next' in this game of musical chairs and is busily making systems vulnerable, and abruptly turning the music off and giving defensive LP - then, oh no, doing anything to make this transition suck less would be a slap in the face.

I expect that Minmatar/CSM opinions will change depending on the date of the rollout and who has the more vulnerable systems leading up to it, but it shouldn't be hard for the side that was ****** by the last rollout to anticipate a repeat.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#307 - 2012-09-01 12:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Reset is not the answer. That just changes who gets a head start but doesn't correct the problem that defensive lp brings. That problem is that once the dust settles everyone will join the winning side.

We already saw this with people leaving amarr in droves and no one leaving minmatar. Giving lp for defensive plexing will just exacerbate this a hundred fold.

Eidt: at least now even with very low numbers amarr has a chance of a tier 5 cashout. fifty percent of the systems are over fifty percent contested. Add lp for defensive plexing, forget about it and pile on the winning side.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Lucius Regall
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#308 - 2012-09-02 05:42:59 UTC
StarConquer212 wrote:


And as stated Fate had no interest in leading militia, and preferred to stay on our own coms and fleets.




And that is why you failed.
Salicaz
Verrimus Caelum
#309 - 2012-09-02 11:00:54 UTC
Lucius Regall wrote:
StarConquer212 wrote:


And as stated Fate had no interest in leading militia, and preferred to stay on our own coms and fleets.




And that is why you failed.



Who said we failed? Many of us are still in the militia playing it how CCP saw fit, to make isk. We're still in Fwarmville :D
Dan Carter Murray
#310 - 2012-09-03 02:48:14 UTC
Salicaz wrote:
Lucius Regall wrote:
StarConquer212 wrote:


And as stated Fate had no interest in leading militia, and preferred to stay on our own coms and fleets.




And that is why you failed.



Who said we failed? Many of us are still in the militia playing it how CCP saw fit, to make isk. We're still in Fwarmville :D


"Fwarmville" for Amarr is just as easy as Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar.

This excuse is a cop out.

Oh hey look at navy ship prices. Omen Navy so hiiiiiighhh.

No one said WBR were economists or business minded.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#311 - 2012-09-03 10:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
Muad 'dib wrote:
amarr are now desperately low on pvpers and alts for farming are leaving us too.

No docking in systems not owned by your 'team', the isk fountains attracting alts galore to the 'winning' side have finally gripped so tight fw is now almost all about the isk, pvp is dead.

grats ccp, we all told you this would happen, i hope you are happy to ruin what was fun for a few thousand players, into incursion style isk farming blobs for a few thousand more. I hope your sov test worked ccp, because it came at a cost of totally stabbing fw fun in the face.

yes im still unhappy, no you still cant have my stuff and yes thats still because i cant get access to it.

QQ, sincerely muad pissy dib.

*sigh*


granted the system's ****but explain the bolded part. 40 some-odd hours to flip a system and you still managed to get you'r stuff locked in? I will now proceed to read the rest of the thread in hopes of finding an explanation.

-edit- i get what you're saying though, and i don't see the proposed changes doing anything other than making it even more skewed to one side than it already is.

.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#312 - 2012-09-03 10:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Salicaz wrote:
Lucius Regall wrote:
StarConquer212 wrote:


And as stated Fate had no interest in leading militia, and preferred to stay on our own coms and fleets.




And that is why you failed.



Who said we failed? Many of us are still in the militia playing it how CCP saw fit, to make isk. We're still in Fwarmville :D


"Fwarmville" for Amarr is just as easy as Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar.

This excuse is a cop out.

Oh hey look at navy ship prices. Omen Navy so hiiiiiighhh.

No one said WBR were economists or business minded.

i for one approve of this operational model, I Iike being able to buy an SFI for roughly the price of any tech 1 bc. SFI around 60m, Vaga 150 ish. Drakes and canes, roughly 50. Keep winning please!

.
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#313 - 2012-09-05 10:45:56 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
amarr are now desperately low on pvpers and alts for farming are leaving us too.

No docking in systems not owned by your 'team', the isk fountains attracting alts galore to the 'winning' side have finally gripped so tight fw is now almost all about the isk, pvp is dead.

grats ccp, we all told you this would happen, i hope you are happy to ruin what was fun for a few thousand players, into incursion style isk farming blobs for a few thousand more. I hope your sov test worked ccp, because it came at a cost of totally stabbing fw fun in the face.

yes im still unhappy, no you still cant have my stuff and yes thats still because i cant get access to it.

QQ, sincerely muad pissy dib.

*sigh*


granted the system's ****but explain the bolded part. 40 some-odd hours to flip a system and you still managed to get you'r stuff locked in? I will now proceed to read the rest of the thread in hopes of finding an explanation.

-edit- i get what you're saying though, and i don't see the proposed changes doing anything other than making it even more skewed to one side than it already is.

What exactly stops him from just _remote_ contracting it over to a neutral alt?