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The Case for Removing Learning Implants

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2012-09-01 23:01:37 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Ah, so you did change your mind then. Don't get to see that happen often around here :).

I don't see a problem with them going away, but being able to unplug them is a much simpler fix, fixes the problem of people going "well I'd love to PVP, but I have expensive implants I don't want to lose" and lets them continue to min/max to their heart's content.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#422 - 2012-09-01 23:51:07 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Ah, so you did change your mind then. Don't get to see that happen often around here :).

I don't see a problem with them going away, but being able to unplug them is a much simpler fix, fixes the problem of people going "well I'd love to PVP, but I have expensive implants I don't want to lose" and lets them continue to min/max to their heart's content.



This is why the player base should be asked for a compromise.

People just gotta have that pod kill. If pods could not be destroyed, and had no D-Scanner and an overview limited to gates and "dockables", it would be worse for a lot of people who have a longer trip back to the hangar.

Of course, those kills, the killoard - such blasphemy I speak!!! I must be anti-PVP looking to make this Hello Kitty Online!


The rest of the compromise would be that whenever a ship is destroyed, whoever is in the capsule inside of it will lose a random number of implants, and/or implants are damaged and need repair or lose some of their power (hence would have to be destroyed to replace, etc).


Oh think of the other set of tears coming from the other side!

This is what I mean my compromise. The PVP crowd has to accept the end of pod killing - provided pods cannot be used for intel any more, and the PVe crowd needs to face the same risk to expensive implant sets that everybody outside of highsec has.

I think overall it would be good especially if you can still SD a pod. One of the issues with PVP aversion is, you get into that bubble with the 1B ISK implant set and it's a garanteed loss because getting pod blapped is coming. People will risk more if total loss was not garunteed. On the same token, those who PVP more and are averse to implants might prefer to risk using them more for the same reasons.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#423 - 2012-09-01 23:53:03 UTC
"The end of podkilling"? So if I want to gain intel on someone, all I have to do is fly around in a pod, because they can't kill my pod?

Okay, then.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#424 - 2012-09-02 02:41:31 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Ah, so you did change your mind then. Don't get to see that happen often around here :).

I don't see a problem with them going away, but being able to unplug them is a much simpler fix, fixes the problem of people going "well I'd love to PVP, but I have expensive implants I don't want to lose" and lets them continue to min/max to their heart's content.



This is why the player base should be asked for a compromise.

People just gotta have that pod kill. If pods could not be destroyed, and had no D-Scanner and an overview limited to gates and "dockables", it would be worse for a lot of people who have a longer trip back to the hangar.

Of course, those kills, the killoard - such blasphemy I speak!!! I must be anti-PVP looking to make this Hello Kitty Online!


The rest of the compromise would be that whenever a ship is destroyed, whoever is in the capsule inside of it will lose a random number of implants, and/or implants are damaged and need repair or lose some of their power (hence would have to be destroyed to replace, etc).


Oh think of the other set of tears coming from the other side!

This is what I mean my compromise. The PVP crowd has to accept the end of pod killing - provided pods cannot be used for intel any more, and the PVe crowd needs to face the same risk to expensive implant sets that everybody outside of highsec has.

I think overall it would be good especially if you can still SD a pod. One of the issues with PVP aversion is, you get into that bubble with the 1B ISK implant set and it's a garanteed loss because getting pod blapped is coming. People will risk more if total loss was not garunteed. On the same token, those who PVP more and are averse to implants might prefer to risk using them more for the same reasons.


Who the hell said anything about not being able to kill pods? This is about learning implants.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Aliventi
Minmatar Fleet Logistics
Minmatar Fleet Associates
#425 - 2012-09-02 08:42:57 UTC
If you wish to solve this problem removing learning implants is not the solution. Nerfs are rarely the final solution.

Perhaps some sort of learning bonus for simply being in lowsec and 0.0. (Enter section of numbers pulled out of a hat.) If you are in lowsec you train 1.05 times faster and 1.10 times faster for 0.0. That way you wouldn't be as penalized, but still wouldn't have the advantage of a full set of +5s. If you wish to RP it you could say the dangerous environment gives you faster learning.

Just an idea.
Frying Doom
#426 - 2012-09-02 08:54:45 UTC
Lord Aliventi wrote:
If you wish to solve this problem removing learning implants is not the solution. Nerfs are rarely the final solution.

Perhaps some sort of learning bonus for simply being in lowsec and 0.0. (Enter section of numbers pulled out of a hat.) If you are in lowsec you train 1.05 times faster and 1.10 times faster for 0.0. That way you wouldn't be as penalized, but still wouldn't have the advantage of a full set of +5s. If you wish to RP it you could say the dangerous environment gives you faster learning.

Just an idea.

I would actually support that idea where "Strange cosmic rays blah blah" allow you to train faster giving a bonus to where you are in space rather than just a flat across the board bonus to everyone.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#427 - 2012-09-02 08:57:42 UTC
That doesn't solve the problem at all, because people are still going to use the learning implants.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#428 - 2012-09-02 09:27:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
That doesn't solve the problem at all, because people are still going to use the learning implants.

Yes but if you got a bonus for being in lo and a higher one for being in Null and Wormholes, then if you chose to risk implants you would be rewarded extra for doing so and if you don't then you at least still get a bonus for areas of space that need better reasons for people to put up with the crap that goes with them.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#429 - 2012-09-02 09:27:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
That doesn't solve the problem at all, because people are still going to use the learning implants.

Yes but if you got a bonus for being in lo and a higher one for being in Null and Wormholes, then if you chose to risk implants you would be rewarded extra for doing so and if you don't then you at least still get a bonus for areas of space that need better reasons for people to put up with the crap that goes with them.

I guess I could get behind that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#430 - 2012-09-02 10:24:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
That doesn't solve the problem at all, because people are still going to use the learning implants.

Yes but if you got a bonus for being in lo and a higher one for being in Null and Wormholes, then if you chose to risk implants you would be rewarded extra for doing so and if you don't then you at least still get a bonus for areas of space that need better reasons for people to put up with the crap that goes with them.

I guess I could get behind that.

It would give more people a want to go to Lo-sec and Null and with Null so broken it isn't funny any small added bonus that does not over balance anything is good.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#431 - 2012-09-02 10:56:03 UTC
Then you will have a lot of people just sit in stations in low/null getting the bonus then JC out when needed. It would be easily exploited and wouldn't solve the issue.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Frying Doom
#432 - 2012-09-02 11:04:12 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Then you will have a lot of people just sit in stations in low/null getting the bonus then JC out when needed. It would be easily exploited and wouldn't solve the issue.

If they wanted to get stuck in a station and not do any thing for a minimum of 24 hours fine. They still have to get the JC in and lock them selves into that course of action. Yes it is exploitable but considering you are talking a 5% or 10% bonus for Null and Wormhole space, are you then going to fly your +5 implants in with you into Null. At least that means you have taken some risk.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#433 - 2012-09-02 11:06:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Then you will have a lot of people just sit in stations in low/null getting the bonus then JC out when needed. It would be easily exploited and wouldn't solve the issue.

If they wanted to get stuck in a station and not do any thing for a minimum of 24 hours fine. They still have to get the JC in and lock them selves into that course of action. Yes it is exploitable but considering you are talking a 5% or 10% bonus for Null and Wormhole space, are you then going to fly your +5 implants in with you into Null. At least that means you have taken some risk.

Or you can get the ability to unplug learning implants without destroying them.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#434 - 2012-09-02 11:09:37 UTC
You run the risk of completely destroying the implant market by making them removable.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Frying Doom
#435 - 2012-09-02 11:10:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Then you will have a lot of people just sit in stations in low/null getting the bonus then JC out when needed. It would be easily exploited and wouldn't solve the issue.

If they wanted to get stuck in a station and not do any thing for a minimum of 24 hours fine. They still have to get the JC in and lock them selves into that course of action. Yes it is exploitable but considering you are talking a 5% or 10% bonus for Null and Wormhole space, are you then going to fly your +5 implants in with you into Null. At least that means you have taken some risk.

Or you can get the ability to unplug learning implants without destroying them.

Kind of what I do with a Jump clone and the real cost of buying an implant is decreased if you can unplug it and sell it on when you have something better and being able to remove them without damage means you can just change sets between ships, increasing the PvP difference between the haves and the have nots.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#436 - 2012-09-02 11:48:52 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Kind of what I do with a Jump clone and the real cost of buying an implant is decreased if you can unplug it and sell it on when you have something better and being able to remove them without damage means you can just change sets between ships, increasing the PvP difference between the haves and the have nots.

Yeah, sure, this, only the complete opposite.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#437 - 2012-09-02 12:01:14 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Kind of what I do with a Jump clone and the real cost of buying an implant is decreased if you can unplug it and sell it on when you have something better and being able to remove them without damage means you can just change sets between ships, increasing the PvP difference between the haves and the have nots.

Yeah, sure, this, only the complete opposite.

At the moment when you jump ito a clone with one set of impants you are locked into it for 24 hours. If you could swap them out you could gain intel as to what is headed your way and change implants in a matter of minutes giving you an advantage you could not now have. Also if you can change implants all you would need to do if your ship was destroyed but you were not podded is change to a different ship type and change to the most beneficial implants.

Not to mention if you were actually out numbered you could remove your expensive implants so as not to risk them even if you had just pod jumped.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Crrrazy Ivan
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#438 - 2012-09-02 12:03:51 UTC
Couldn't be arsed reading 22 pages so here's my opinion. If you're capable of making a few billion a week in NS then you're capable of dishing out 100m for a +4 set. If you really want to keep your pods then move to HS, problem solved.

~*~Risk vs Reward~*~
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#439 - 2012-09-02 12:09:48 UTC
Crrrazy Ivan wrote:
Couldn't be arsed reading 22 pages so here's my opinion. If you're capable of making a few billion a week in NS then you're capable of dishing out 100m for a +4 set. If you really want to keep your pods then move to HS, problem solved.

~*~Risk vs Reward~*~


heh yeah let's bring the income potential of nullsec into this when CCP has done everything they can to bring nullsec-level income potential to highsec while simultaneously nerfing nullsec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#440 - 2012-09-02 12:14:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
At the moment when you jump ito a clone with one set of impants you are locked into it for 24 hours. If you could swap them out you could gain intel as to what is headed your way and change implants in a matter of minutes giving you an advantage you could not now have. Also if you can change implants all you would need to do if your ship was destroyed but you were not podded is change to a different ship type and change to the most beneficial implants.

Tell us more how taking out learning implants would yield any special advantage in PVP.

Frying Doom wrote:
Not to mention if you were actually out numbered you could remove your expensive implants so as not to risk them even if you had just pod jumped.

So the end result might be more PVP?

Crrrazy Ivan wrote:
Couldn't be arsed reading 22 pages so here's my opinion. If you're capable of making a few billion a week in NS then you're capable of dishing out 100m for a +4 set. If you really want to keep your pods then move to HS, problem solved.

~*~Risk vs Reward~*~

Tell us more about your extensive knowledge of the individual profitability of nullsec, guy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat