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R.I.P City of Heroes
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#1 - 2012-08-31 21:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/news_archive/thank_you.php

EVE is my current love, but one of my first MMOs was City of Heroes. Like EVE, it never had quite the subscriber base or size of WoW...but it never tried to be WoW. It was unique. The community, some of the best in-game RPers ever seen in ANY MMO I've been apart of. The level of character customization has never been matched (IMO) by any other game since.

It was a unique jewel that has hung around from the old days of MMOs.

Sadly, they are shuttering the doors on this old and beloved MMO. R.I.P CoH, you will be missed.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Mutant Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-08-31 22:20:15 UTC
+1. I remember playing it back in '05 after I quit SWG, was a great game. I quit back in June of '06 when I started playing Eve. R.I.P. CoX. Cry
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-31 22:29:55 UTC
Never tried to be wow... and now it's dead P

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Reiisha
#4 - 2012-08-31 22:58:47 UTC
Sad day.... I rather liked it :/

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Reiisha
#5 - 2012-09-01 00:15:36 UTC
This is just a stupid thought, but....

What if CCP picked this up? Imagine the CCP character creator combined with the City of Heroes one 0-o

Somehow i think that would end all other superhero mmo attempts 0-o

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#6 - 2012-09-01 02:17:28 UTC
hmmm... it was avg 150k subs until it went f2p. Enough to keep going. Guess f2p killed it, not surprised. Yes I had a sub, but not active for years. But yeah, another victim of this f2p craze.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-09-01 03:19:57 UTC
Oh noes! Eve is next! Shocked

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#8 - 2012-09-01 04:33:07 UTC
Webvan wrote:
hmmm... it was avg 150k subs until it went f2p. Enough to keep going. Guess f2p killed it, not surprised. Yes I had a sub, but not active for years. But yeah, another victim of this f2p craze.



Actually their income on the F2P model was almost exactly the same as their sub model... not stellar but not a money pit either. This was not a dying dog that had to be taken out back and shot.


The fact that the devs had released a brand new powerset not 10 days earlier and had been communicating with the fans like everything was normal shows that this was a surprise pink slip even to the devs.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-09-01 04:55:40 UTC
Because of Joker?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#10 - 2012-09-01 05:48:20 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Webvan wrote:
hmmm... it was avg 150k subs until it went f2p. Enough to keep going. Guess f2p killed it, not surprised. Yes I had a sub, but not active for years. But yeah, another victim of this f2p craze.



Actually their income on the F2P model was almost exactly the same as their sub model... not stellar but not a money pit either. This was not a dying dog that had to be taken out back and shot.


The fact that the devs had released a brand new powerset not 10 days earlier and had been communicating with the fans like everything was normal shows that this was a surprise pink slip even to the devs.


Well the article did state, that NCsoft was choosing to close down paragon studios, which were making the game. Not paragon studios closing the game or moving on to a new one. But suppose maybe the devs should have seen it coming, or maybe didn't who knows. Only there forums, or random leaks to the media will tell us.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-09-01 08:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
rodyas wrote:
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Webvan wrote:
hmmm... it was avg 150k subs until it went f2p. Enough to keep going. Guess f2p killed it, not surprised. Yes I had a sub, but not active for years. But yeah, another victim of this f2p craze.



Actually their income on the F2P model was almost exactly the same as their sub model... not stellar but not a money pit either. This was not a dying dog that had to be taken out back and shot.


The fact that the devs had released a brand new powerset not 10 days earlier and had been communicating with the fans like everything was normal shows that this was a surprise pink slip even to the devs.


Well the article did state, that NCsoft was choosing to close down paragon studios, which were making the game. Not paragon studios closing the game or moving on to a new one. But suppose maybe the devs should have seen it coming, or maybe didn't who knows. Only there forums, or random leaks to the media will tell us.


Q1 earnings report indicates, that they saw a significan't revenue bump with the F2P transfer, but it crashed after that and all the gains went down the drain.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#12 - 2012-09-01 08:39:42 UTC
^ I suppose they weren't so super hero after all. Maybe it was best just to close it down.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#13 - 2012-09-01 09:27:03 UTC
By definition, "F2P" means that sooner than later it's not going to be worth playing it without extra expenses, which is exactly the opposite of how a subscription game thrives.

Going from "what you do is so interesting that you must keep paying to keep doing it" to "what you do is so useless that you must start paying just to get worthy stuff" is a losing deal.

Free To Play games can enjoy big success only if they are F2P by inception.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#14 - 2012-09-01 10:35:05 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Going from "what you do is so interesting that you must keep paying to keep doing it" to "what you do is so useless that you must start paying just to get worthy stuff" is a losing deal.


/irony

Are you seriously trying to say that EA, Ubisoft and some other publishers don't know what they are doing ?

/end_irony

Seriously, I see two possible outcomes:

1) Big publishers leave open and semi-open platforms in favour of consoles, DRM-enforced online services (Origin, U-play ...), streamed gaming. Commercials either before, during or inbetween game-time will pay devs. Games will either be free (like flash games today), free2play (and pay2win), or mini-subscriptions (game passes that offer access to several games for a limited time), free but loads of DLC ... and of course still ads on top of that !


2) Some games will be succesfull on the above cited models and others will starve. The big publishers will find a scapegoat, close more studios and show the few games that were succesfull as prime examples that the F2P model itself is the right choice. (A bit like in the MMO type of games: "If you're not doing it like WOW, you're doing it wrong" bullsh..)

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Ensign X
#15 - 2012-09-01 21:01:13 UTC
Darwin would be proud.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#16 - 2012-09-02 00:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Ensign X wrote:
Darwin would be proud.


A bunch of generic lowest-common-denominator garbage marketed as cream, rising to the top, most of which only to sink just as quickly? All under the over-arching monolith of yet more generic re-hashed crapola (read: WoW and clones) that couldn't innovate even if they wanted to due to sheer inertia?

No, I don't think he would be. At all.

E:

You are being sarcastic, yes?

Ni.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#17 - 2012-09-02 04:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Webvan wrote:
hmmm... it was avg 150k subs until it went f2p. Enough to keep going. Guess f2p killed it, not surprised. Yes I had a sub, but not active for years. But yeah, another victim of this f2p craze.



Actually their income on the F2P model was almost exactly the same as their sub model... not stellar but not a money pit either. This was not a dying dog that had to be taken out back and shot.


The fact that the devs had released a brand new powerset not 10 days earlier and had been communicating with the fans like everything was normal shows that this was a surprise pink slip even to the devs.


Well the article did state, that NCsoft was choosing to close down paragon studios, which were making the game. Not paragon studios closing the game or moving on to a new one. But suppose maybe the devs should have seen it coming, or maybe didn't who knows. Only there forums, or random leaks to the media will tell us.


Q1 earnings report indicates, that they saw a significan't revenue bump with the F2P transfer, but it crashed after that and all the gains went down the drain.


Yes, that is actually VERY common with these f2p conversions. I'm very much into watching the market, and it seems like f2p is a kamikaze screaming banzai ...but then crashing into ocean which was common. Quick cash then shut down so not to loose money. Seemed like a good game when I played it early on... I didn't follow development after I left so have no idea how they go to this point. I don't think f2p was a good move, though.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Free To Play games can enjoy big success only if they are F2P by inception.
I don;t know why they would launch f2p if they could get a sub, honestly. Dungeon runners? Kinda iffy.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#18 - 2012-09-02 05:17:05 UTC
How many games that started with a subscription, and subsequently went to the F2P model, actually thrive after the change? I'm genuinely curious.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#19 - 2012-09-02 06:36:20 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
How many games that started with a subscription, and subsequently went to the F2P model, actually thrive after the change? I'm genuinely curious.



LOTRO and DDO ... still strong

Also this news brings sad tears to my face. But the game simply reached a spot where you couldnt do much more besides a point than rehashing things over and over with an alt on a diff costume.

Will miss my level 50 Mastermind ... Ahhh

Well ...

It was a fun ride back in 2006-2009 and brief stint back in 2011.

Another Collectors Edition Box I will look in my shelf of failed MMOs ... To this day I still enjoy sometimes perusing my CE Vanguard Box, nice art book and map Big smile

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-09-02 07:24:20 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
How many games that started with a subscription, and subsequently went to the F2P model, actually thrive after the change? I'm genuinely curious.


What games can you think of, that have done the change? I haven't been up to date with such things, but the shining examples usually given are Lord of the rings online and DDO. News of giant jumps in revenue, saving fading games and bringing them to glory. Both Turbine games. The problem is, that actually reading the news literally and looking in to things more closely I'm not convinced things are as rosy as the general population seems to think.

Take LOTRO for example. Game was doing ok, but was in serious decline when going F2P. Turbine reported their profits tripling and tons of new players playing the game. One article noted that: "Lord of the Rings Online's future is so bright, it's wearing shades these days." Good times were had by all. Look at LOTRO today. Server populations have decreased since going F2P and are starting to creep back to what they were before the change. The playing population is well below what EVE has for example. It certainly was a short term success and breathed life to a declining game, but there isn't anything to indicate a long term success.

As for DDO I haven't seen any info on it after the initial we boosted revenue by 500% by going F2P. The problem really is, that any positive news about these two games are old and don't have concrete numbers. 500% boost to jack **** isn't still good and all periferal news, the low number of servers, closed servers and people complaining about dead servers seem to suggest DDO has also been steadily losing ground. I couldn't find anything really concrete about it's current health though, but if it was doing crazy well the company would be shouting about it at every opportunity and the few servers remaining would be packed instead of some being practically dead. It's safe to say, that while it might not be a failure by any reasonable measure, it's also faiding in to irrelevance.

To conclued there is clear evidence that suggests, that going F2P provides a short term injection of extra money and players to your game, but I can't find any reason to suggest it's a succesful long term plan. Maybe someone else can think of a game, that has been able to maintain the population and revenue well beyond the initial bump. From my point of view it seems, that the revenue model doesn't make or break your game. How good your game is and how fast and well you're able to expand upon it seems to be a much more important in ensuring long term success for a game.
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