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Why Ninja Salvaging should be considered an exploit
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Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#61 - 2012-08-31 21:50:36 UTC
here's my .2 pence, yes they are lowlifes, but to be honest ever since the nerf almost all of it is trash, and I don't care if the bum rifles through it looking for recyclables, I often bookmark them blue it then jettison bookmarks, free stuff, not worthy of my time.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#62 - 2012-08-31 21:54:29 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:
This is what we get when people aren't able to log into WoW. I thought I'd seen the last of these a good year or more ago.

You're seeing this the totally wrong way.

We haven't had one of these threads in AGES ... at least i didn't notice any in GD.

Now think about it ... this one thread gets read by many ... and of these "many",
there'll be "some" who'll think: "hey that's great, i'll try that too!"

And even if it's not "profitable" or there are better things to do ... at least they create content... :)


This is what the old ninja whine threads did, they prompted more of us to have a go at salvaging other people's missions and encouraging others to do so just to annoy those that might wine about it.

I found a ninja in my mission one night when I went back to salvage it. I told him fair play since he'd taken the time to probe my out and left him to it. I later recruited him into the corp when some derp threatened to war dec the corp he was in at the time.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Adalynne Rohks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-08-31 21:59:05 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Adeena Torcfist wrote:
what i fail to understand, is, if you return fire to a thief, how his bum buddies can warp in & gank you. Its got nothing to do with them, regardless. So that "bug" needs fixing right there for a start.....

.... & if my mate is getting ***** slapped, i'd probably laugh, & leave him to suffer the consequences.


That's because when he steals from you, CONCORD gives you freedom to shoot him. However when you shoot him, its officially "On". For his friends, and for yours too.

It's your fault that you shot a guy without friends to help you defend yourself. There are no cases in EVE where two parties that aggroed each other can't bring their friends to help. Its a social game after all.


Actually, this is very much wrong. Whenever you shoot at a pirate, the only person who can then shoot back at you is that same pirate. Other people can repair him, and give you chance to shoot them, but the only person who gets to shoot at you w/o suiciding is the original thief.

So people who think that all the ninja's in that corp have the chance to shoot at you, well... they're wrong.

On the other hand, you and ALL of your corp buddies can shoot this ninja, with no consequences.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#64 - 2012-08-31 22:23:05 UTC
MetalDev wrote:
Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.



I was just the other day thinking about how long it's been since someone made a fool out of themselves by starting one of these threads.

Thanks, I suppose.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-08-31 22:24:39 UTC
Salvage by definition usually implies free for all...
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-08-31 22:26:37 UTC
MetalDev wrote:


Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk.

You dont lose ISK, you just get less. Or do you use the best pirate ammo eg: Domination EMP?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Ginger Barbarella
#67 - 2012-08-31 23:03:47 UTC
Good God, OP's post is so full of fail it MUST be a troll. But I'll do the easy ones, as I'm sure others have expounded upon the entire failure of his points already.

1. Where's the exploit?
2. You DO understand, don't you, that the mechanics put in place by the game designers does NOT put salvage in the "cargo can", thus drawing a deliberate line between LOOT and SALVAGE? There's a simple reason why when you salvage a can drops: because the salvage is separate and apart from what drops.
3. You CHOOSE to mission in mission or trade hubs, PRESUMABLY because you're lazy. That close to other lazy players (I refuse to call them ninja's, because there's nothing ninja about stealing from a can) and you're asking for something to happen.
4. If you can't protect your own gains you don't deserve to have them. Where's the problem here? This ain't Hello Kitty...

I think OP understands the mechanics perfectly, and I doubt he's dumb enough to want PROTECTION in a game where none exists (cuz he'd get laughed at if he actually said it), so I can only assume it's yet another forum troll post.

But I had fun entering this text. As I'm sure we all did reading it. P



MetalDev wrote:
Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.




"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-08-31 23:26:31 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:
Salvage by definition usually implies free for all...


Salvaging can often involve licensing, permitting and/or bidding for salvage rights.

But this isn't the real world.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#69 - 2012-08-31 23:28:14 UTC
Matriarch Prime wrote:
But this isn't the real world.


Well spotted.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#70 - 2012-08-31 23:31:24 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
here's my .2 pence, yes they are lowlifes, but to be honest ever since the nerf almost all of it is trash, and I don't care if the bum rifles through it looking for recyclables, I often bookmark them blue it then jettison bookmarks, free stuff, not worthy of my time.


Right there with you.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#71 - 2012-08-31 23:42:33 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
here's my .2 pence, yes they are lowlifes, but to be honest ever since the nerf almost all of it is trash, and I don't care if the bum rifles through it looking for recyclables, I often bookmark them blue it then jettison bookmarks, free stuff, not worthy of my time.

Right there with you.

Hope the nerf didn't hurt the newbies' income. Oh dear..

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#72 - 2012-08-31 23:59:43 UTC
Salvage isn't yours the same way Stuff from an Exploration site is not yours.

If you want the salvage, get an alt in a noctis
or HTFU and ignore them

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
Top Shelf
#73 - 2012-09-01 00:02:46 UTC
Show us where the Salvage Ninja touched you.
Dennis Gregs
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-09-01 00:20:01 UTC
Ninja salvaging isn't particularly profitable, people should be allowed to waste their time with it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#75 - 2012-09-01 04:05:46 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Show us where the Salvage Ninja touched you.

In the "wreck".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-09-01 04:16:56 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Show us where the Salvage Ninja touched you.

In the "wreck".


Was it a large wreck, a medium wreck, or a small wreck?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#77 - 2012-09-01 04:30:05 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
Show us where the Salvage Ninja touched you.

In the "wreck".


Was it a large wreck, a medium wreck, or a small wreck?

I'd say large guristas commander wreck, but if anyone was salvaging it but me, it would be a cute newbie.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Brusanan
Free State Project
#78 - 2012-09-01 05:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Brusanan
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
+1 for making salvaging pull aggro.


Nah +1 for anybody whining about ninja salvagers being flagged in game with a GCC for badposting.

I'm not whining. Flags for salvaging wrecks belonging to others would only be a buff to Ninja Salvaging.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#79 - 2012-09-01 05:46:32 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
+1 for making salvaging pull aggro.


Nah +1 for anybody whining about ninja salvagers being flagged in game with a GCC for badposting.

I'm not whining. Flags for salvaging wrecks belonging to others would only be a buff to Ninja Salvaging.


lol sorry that's not what I was inferring, that was aimed at the OP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#80 - 2012-09-01 06:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
MetalDev wrote:
Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.

But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...

And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.

Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.



Oh, **** off, you useless waste of bandwidth Roll

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.