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Minmatar Militia drives out Amarr Crusade from Minmatar space!
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Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-08-28 17:30:11 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Azdan Amith wrote:

Even if someone believes they are meaningless, there are still people who suffer because of them on a daily basis, economies are shifted, lives are lost, jobs are destroyed and created and other consequences exist. I would suggest that the wars themselves are not the problem, it is the ones fighting them that have forgotten the reasons behind them or simply forsaken those reasons that are the problem.


Soldiers do not determine policy.

Were the entirety of the capsuleer militias to presently retire, the wars would not end. Other capsuleers would simply move in as there is isk to be made and baubles to be obtained. CONCORD-designed system facilitates easy entrance by any capsuleer looking for thrills or material rewards. Which is to say, the two motivations that drive most capsuleers.

Whether or not members of the militia stay true to the 'reasons' behind the conflict are irrelevant to the war's continuance or conclusion.

This is a war initiated from the top-down, carefully regulated and bounded by the highest authorities of the interstellar political order. The man who initiated the surprise attack on the Federation, Tibus Heth, still holds power over the State and continues to benefit politically from the war. The Minmatar Elders that launched the initial assault on CONCORD and subsequent push into Amarrian space continue to harbor grievances against the Empire that holds a significant portion of their ethnic kin in bondage.

You will find that we members of the militia have little to do with how long these power players decide that the war must continue. We are simply paid quite well by them to carry out their agendas. And if it were not us, it would be some other capsuleers.

As a respected member of the Federal Defense Union I find your words while honest and appreciated, to be just a little discouraging.
Surely some capsuleers among atleast the FDU fight for truth, justice, and the Gallentean way. P
Surely there be those who fight for more than just mere ISK and cheap thrills. Ugh
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-08-28 17:47:05 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Soldiers do not determine policy.


I never suggested they do. Soldiers may determine two things:

  • What cause they fight for
  • How fiercely they fight for that cause


Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Were the entirety of the capsuleer militias to presently retire, the wars would not end. Other capsuleers would simply move in as there is isk to be made and baubles to be obtained. CONCORD-designed system facilitates easy entrance by any capsuleer looking for thrills or material rewards. Which is to say, the two motivations that drive most capsuleers.

Whether or not members of the militia stay true to the 'reasons' behind the conflict are irrelevant to the war's continuance or conclusion.


I would not argue any of these points as they are truthful. I would state, however, that you embodied my original statement with, "...any capsuleer looking for thrills or material rewards. Which is to say, the two motivations that drive most capsuleers."
This is a stark example of why the core of corruption begins with the capsuleer, not the wars or the powers behind them. Because the majority of capsuleers are motivated most powerful by these things is the only reason such systems work.

Shaalira D'arc wrote:
This is a war initiated from the top-down, carefully regulated and bounded by the highest authorities of the interstellar political order. The man who initiated the surprise attack on the Federation, Tibus Heth, still holds power over the State and continues to benefit politically from the war. The Minmatar Elders that launched the initial assault on CONCORD and subsequent push into Amarrian space continue to harbor grievances against the Empire that holds a significant portion of their ethnic kin in bondage.

You will find that we members of the militia have little to do with how long these power players decide that the war must continue. We are simply paid quite well by them to carry out their agendas. And if it were not us, it would be some other capsuleers.


On this we again agree and I begin to sense that perhaps you felt I was seeking to discredit militia capsuleers, I do not. I seek to discredit the motivations behind many of us and point out that we are not fighting for a greater cause or some great justice, but for greed and excitement. Which puts us at the core of the corruption in the system. The system is designed to be appealing to one thing: the capsuleer. It only works because it is just that: appealing to the capsuleer. If capsuleers were not motivated by greed and excitement, the system wouldn't work. We are the core of the problem, not the wars themselves.

Those of us that have not abandoned the cause are a rarity among the whole and while we feed the system by our participation, we are also the ones most commonly seeking ways to minimize the collateral damage, maximize the intended effect and regulate our actions. We are soldiers, the rest are degenerates.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-08-28 21:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaalira D'arc
Mr. Amith,

I do agree that the crass and predictable nature of capsuleer motivations are harnessed, and mis-used, by interstellar political bodies. I do not attribute the causality of the war to it, however.

The grudges upon which this conflict was built predate capsuleers. Had the Jovians never deigned to share the pod with the four nations, this war would have been fought wholly by traditional forces of baseliners. The CONCORD-enforced rules are, if anything, a measure implemented to limit the collateral damage of warfare in the Empyrian era, an era in which the destructive power of a single starship has increased manifold.

Were capsuleers a nobler sort, these grudges would still remain.

All that said, I do admire your insistence that capsuleer morality can be made better. I am, perhaps, a bit too jaded and experienced a pilot to share such a view. There are indeed those podders that retain much of their humanity, that value principle, empathy, and the lives of others over immediate gain and trifling entertainments. I find they are the exception to the rule.

I will be curious to see whether your optimism can survive a year or two of serving in the militias.
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#24 - 2012-08-28 22:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Azdan Amith wrote:
There was no "mass slave raid" that took place.


I'm sure it was a misuse of terms. It isn't enslavement but "reclamation" and "enlightenment" right?


The Amarr no longer take slaves, they are not allowed to by law. those that do take slaves i would assume are arrested if found out, so mass slaver runs are no more.

However there are still Billions of slaves in the empire that need freeing so get to it.

.....
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-08-29 01:57:12 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Mr. Amith,

I do agree that the crass and predictable nature of capsuleer motivations are harnessed, and mis-used, by interstellar political bodies. I do not attribute the causality of the war to it, however.

The grudges upon which this conflict was built predate capsuleers. Had the Jovians never deigned to share the pod with the four nations, this war would have been fought wholly by traditional forces of baseliners. The CONCORD-enforced rules are, if anything, a measure implemented to limit the collateral damage of warfare in the Empyrian era, an era in which the destructive power of a single starship has increased manifold.

Were capsuleers a nobler sort, these grudges would still remain.

All that said, I do admire your insistence that capsuleer morality can be made better. I am, perhaps, a bit too jaded and experienced a pilot to share such a view. There are indeed those podders that retain much of their humanity, that value principle, empathy, and the lives of others over immediate gain and trifling entertainments. I find they are the exception to the rule.

I will be curious to see whether your optimism can survive a year or two of serving in the militias.


I believe you are misunderstanding me, or I you.

I do not believe the war is caused by greed and selfishness by capsuleers, I attested to quite the opposite actually.

On everything else, we seem to agree. I pray my "optimism" does hold, though I believe it is more a matter of principle and conviction and the belief that they must be upheld more than any belief that I can change the cluster.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#26 - 2012-08-30 02:25:53 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
[...] undoubtedly unique insight.

Do I need to add a forum tag to that statement?


Knock yourself out, babe!

I never said it was unique or that I thought it so, either:

What's so unique about something that anyone with two of their own thoughts to rub together knows? Nothing at all.

I simply state facts.

And you all bloody well know it.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#27 - 2012-08-30 23:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arnulf Ogunkoya
Damsa Desirah wrote:
The only motivation is ISK. I don't care for the Minmatar peoples just as I don't care for the Amarrian peoples. ISK is why I fight, it's also why I die...


Then either you are in the wrong alliance or Ushra'Khan have truly lost their way. I hope the former is true.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#28 - 2012-08-31 12:45:27 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
The Amarr no longer take slaves, they are not allowed to by law. those that do take slaves i would assume are arrested if found out, so mass slaver runs are no more.

Heideran's decree only prohibits the taking of new slave "stock" from outside of the Empire's borders. Convicted criminals and prisoners of war are both fair game, and while there's generally no shortage of the former, the latter is particularly abundant at this time thanks to the militia "wars".

Mind, this decree does not stop certain unscrupulous individuals from either going through third parties such as the Angel Cartel to acquire more slaves, or even doing it themselves. It is, however, still something you can have reported to the appropriate authorities. I'm not quite sure what the punishment is in that particular case, but I'd make a small wager that it's some form of poetic justice.

Paul Oliver wrote:
As a respected member of the Federal Defense Union I find your words while honest and appreciated, to be just a little discouraging.
Paul Oliver's Employment Record wrote:
CURRENT CORPORATION
Federal Navy Academy [FNA] from YC114.08.23 15:39 to this day

There's probably a militia office on the nearest concourse of whatever station you're docked in. Until you've signed on with the FDU proper, or one of its capsuleer-run affiliates, you're still just yet another graduate of the Federal Navy Academy's capsuleer program.

As for being respected... thanks, I needed the laugh this morning.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
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