EVE General Discussion

I've admittedly not been playing the game/browsing this forum long. But my impression thus far is despite all the complaining about whining miners, there is just as much bawwing from gankers over taking down defenceless ships actually requiring *shock* effort. They boast about "delicious miner tears" but appear to be having their own little tantrum. Yes, how dare they, how dare they give ships with zero combat or manoeuvring capability some extra defence.

Talking about an entitlement complex amongst miners, what's with these people who think it's their god given right to have easy kills? I've thankfully never been ganked (probably haven't played long enough), but if I ever was, what am I to think of the ganker? Someone whose managed to outsmart/beat me at the game, or some little ***** who couldn't make it in PvP so went after defenceless targets?

I'm a total noob at this game so have a lot to learn, haven't even finished training for mining barges yet. But even I can see all this bitching about whining miners is rather hypocritical.

Unilaterally increasing the EHP of Exhumers doesn't change the amount of effort it takes to gank miners, just the cost. And the Miners could easily have increased their EHP by fitting a *shock* tank. But no, instead of taking the effort to fit a tank or *shock* fly their ship to avoid ganks*, the miners cried and shat their pants until CCP had to step in to give them a large EHP buff and a new Cargo Hulk that mines the same amount, hauls twice as much, and tanks well enough to be unprofitable to gank.

*Which actually increases the effort it takes to gank a miner. Ganking even the most inattentive aligned miner requires a cloaked ship and a good bump, and for an attentive one, even that won't work.

So you're suggesting that the appropriate way to balance ships is based on the dumbest people flying them? By that logic, nothing's broken. Because someone who bothers to fit their ship will beat them.

By the way,
an unfit Hulk has 10,900 Omni EHP.
an unfit Vaga has 9,170 Omni EHP.
an unfit Zealot has 10,800 Omni EHP.
an unfit Cerberus has 9,890 Omni EHP.
an unfit Ishtar has 10,400 Omni EHP.

So there's a full half of the Heavy Assault cruiser line who, when unfit (like the Hulks you think are properly balanced by player stupidity) have less base EHP than the Hulk.


So the other ships don't need a buff because the fact that they give up the ability to mine effectively (something unnecessary to their role) isn't valuable. But the Hulks needed a buff because the fact that they give up the ability to fight effectively (something unnecessary to their role) is valuable?

By the way, the Hulk certainly can fight. Just not particularly effectively. Just like, as you say, combat ships can mine, just not effectively.

Because Mass is how you determine what ships are similar. Sure. Combat treats Hulks as cruisers (cruiser Sig Radius).

Once again, you're bringing up the already disproven idea that the Hulk can't or couldn't tank. It has always been able to tank more than enough to make it unprofitable to gank. Given the number of Tanked Hulks that have been killed (I've yet to see a single one), they tanked just fine for HS. And with a different fit, they did just fine for Null.

So you have Hulks that now have a base tank better than Heavy Assault Ships and gave up nothing for it. You have Mackinaws (the new version of the Cargo Hulk, which gave up yield and tank for convenience) which tank better than the Hulk while mining the same amount as the old Cargo Hulk and having double the capacity. And you have the Skiff who, if not for the silly 15k Ore hold would be on the right track.

The miners have been whining nonstop about crystals to disguise the fact that they just got a large, straight buff through one of the loudest campaigns of whining I've ever seen.


And again, you missed the part where you're suggesting that the way to balance a ship is to use the dumbest pilots flying the worst fits. That's what you're saying when you say "well, it doesn't matter because people don't fit tanks."

[Catalyst, 1500 deeps]

Cormack's Modified Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Cormack's Modified Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Cormack's Modified Magnetic Field Stabilizer

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
[Empty Rig slot]


Zainou 'Deadeye' Small Hybrid Turret SH-606
Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Gunnery RF-906

C6 Wolf–Rayet

So, about EHP of Catalyst. I think untanked Catalyst should have at least 20k EHP.

Please, use calculater next time so we don't have to see how bad you are at math.
1598,2



Why it's so important for you to be able to destroy barges/exhumers with one volley?

My version of Pyfa's adamant that it's 1563 Gun DPS and 21.1 Drone DPS for a total of 1585 DPS. I don't argue with my Pyfa, I... I tend to run into doors when I argue with it.


Where did I say that it was important to me to be able to one volley barges/exhumers? Quote and Link please.

You propaganda posters no, only your masters.

As to bad faith that depends on your terminology. I am sure a lot of people have fully believed in their rulers propaganda over the years.

After all it is well known that allied troops eat children.

You missed if more T2 barges are killed more often, the tech moon owners sell more, as there is a larger demand and subsequently they make more isk.

Not really. The price of Tech was being fixed 200k long before HAG and the GSF bounties, and the cartel wasn't a supply reduction cartel.

But even if Exhumers exploding were a significant factor in PT demand, that doesn't bother me because Alchemy has put a pretty hard cap on Tech/PT prices. And CCP's looking at other ways to revamp Moon-Goo.