EVE General Discussion

I heard in an ~unnamed news source~ that OP is an idiot.

Also I PvP in +4s because #YOLO

Most don't mind the font, but if you do:

http://www.readability.com/

A few things, in no particular order:

1. Stop pretending like people are proposing this change for newbies. Everyone understands it's for nullsec guys.

2. Learning skills were removed because they were a necessity that cost TIME no matter how you sliced it. Implants only cost ISK (or ISK and LP).

3. The idea that "anything that makes you risk-averse and prevents pvp is automatically bad" is flat out stupid. Go play on the test server where everything costs 100 isk, that way flying a certain ship won't make you risk averse either.

4. The difference between +2s and +5s is not game-breakingly significant. I've had +4s in my learning clone my entire career even though I could afford +5s, just because it's really not that relevant.

5. Experienced players need only have two implants at a time.

6. Choices and risk are what make Eve the game it is. The people whining for total learning implant removal are no better than miners whining for mining barge changes (although in the end, the mining barge changes weren't all that bad).

This isn't even touching on the issues of needing a new LP store item to replace the ISK sink, etc. If you want to talk about small modifications to bubble mechanics or JC standings, have at it, but the full removal of learning implants is a dumb idea.

Also, if you read the comments section on the article, it's pretty clear that the author is dumber than a box of rocks.

1. No, the groups aren't mutually exclusive, but it's perfectly valid to get annoyed when someone claims it's for one group when it's obviously for another (see: tax cuts and modern politics).

2. Straw man, and you obviously can't read.

3. I'm not angry, I just think you're wrong. Also, I wasn't referring to you as an idiot for coming up with/repeating the idea of removing learning implants, but your hilarious power trip and threats to ban people who disagree with you in the comments section of the article.

Try harder. Consider refuting some of the points that myself or others make in this thread.

1. It benefits nullsec players (disproportionately) in that they are by far the most likely to lose implants (sidenote: I would support bubble changes that would make shooting pods require SOME effort rather than lolfishinabarrel). It benefits newbies (disproportionately) as they are the least likely to have the ISK required to buy +3s and up. It is not necessarily tied to age.

2. It's not ridiculous to bring up risk and choices.
3. I don't think you'd see a massive switch to hardwirings. The people who aren't pvping because they're afraid to risk a pod with implants that gain them a few extra days/weeks a year aren't suddenly going to start spending equal or greater amounts on hardwirings. In their mind, ISK cost defines the risk, and that wouldn't go away depending on implant type. I'm not really quite sure what you're getting at here unless you think that they will decide that a 3% damage boost is a much more significant reward or something.

4. I wasn't posting dumb comments, I was making a legitimate criticism of you, the author, based on things you wrote in the comments section. Power trips and generally bad posts like those you made in the comments section reflect poorly on the individuals that make them in a variety of ways, one of which is intelligence. If you prefer, I won't bring it up again and will instead focus on the issue at hand.

The problem is though, people could use this as a way to get around not having to grind a specific faction for lps, and just dump them all for loot that sells a lot better. Sure this seems fair to the marketeers whkio spent a lot of time on the implant market, but it seems kind of lke a lazy fix. Giving them in to Concord sounds more logical, and maybe for a brief while, up to conversion rate for lps from 2:1 to something like 1.5:1, just for breathing room.

That's not a bad point, but players dumping all of their LP into implants to cash out in an LP store from a "better" faction would only take place between the "hey guys this is how we're going to reimburse the implants you have in your hangar" post and the patch that introduces the change (which will probably never happen, but yeah)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This character has clearly drank the DekCo koolaid. EN24 did not post that article. Obviously this was a post to slander EN24 and make it look like EN24 was trying to help remove learning implants. But this is not the case, it was a GOON who wrote the article and its published on a GOON propaganda website.

1. It's not a big deal from a balance perspective, and I never said it was. I just said it was annoying that people kept claiming that it was for newbies when it's obviously nullsec powerblocs lobbying for it.

2/3. I disagree. Some would, but I think many would not replace the implants with hardwirings of a roughly equal ISK value. With the exception of some of the more basic ones (e.g. Zor's), I think most people who currently go without hardwirings would continue to do so. TL;DR I think we'll see a vast decrease in implants lost (using ISK value as a metric) which translates into more risk free PvP (regardless of whether this is a good or bad thing).

This is my last post for a while, but I'll be back ITT later.

1. This isn't a "bloc-level lobbying" thing. A lot of the flak that came my way was from some CFC dudes.

2. I can't speak for everyone in trying to gauge how players would act after a proposed change, but I'm quite sure that anybody who doesn't mind regularly PvPing with learning implants would consider hardwirings more often than they do now.