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The Case for Removing Learning Implants

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Frying Doom
#101 - 2012-08-30 12:46:49 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Generally I find less slant and better info on EvE News 24


Is this a racial slur?

Yeah white men can't jump.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-08-30 12:47:58 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Andski wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Look at incursion runners, wouldn't even do those sites,without the force projection given to faction items. Or me doing lvl 3s without force projecting faction items from dodixie.

You do realize that you're using that phrase completely wrong, yes?


My Huginn-bonused FN webs let me project The Force at 100km with bonuses so he's right!


Nice, I am gonna start using my logi ship to force project healing to my BS, be awhile before I get into huginn/webbing the forcing.

Dinosaurs are the greater power at force for everything in the world, they control space, time, and everyone's fate, when you die you don't go to heaven, you shoot up to space where a giant T-Rex in a top hat and monocle shares some tea with you before promptly devouring you whole.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-08-30 12:48:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Andski wrote:
non judgement wrote:
If you remove the learning implants then would you suggest giving everyone a boost to their base attributes by 4-5 points to make up for the lack of implant bonus?


That'd be the inevitable conclusion, yes. The article is not a proposal for their removal, but an argument against their continued existence in the game.

So any gain for those people who do not die often or do not choose to PvP would be lost.

That's not a gain, that's the lack of a loss. And even the best elite PvP-ers will sometimes lose their implants, resulting in a loss.
And in the end of the day, the ones who relatively "gains" are those who choose to take no risk, to not PvP, to not leave low/highsec.

Really, who would be hurt by the replacement of learning implants with regular hardwiring (or simply, implants sets)?

Certainly not the newbies. They wouldnt waste training time to get cybernetic right away, and wouldnt spend a large part of their early isks into expensive implants. They wouldnt get into a risk-averse mindset due to the risk of losing these implants, which is probably the biggest barrier there currently is. That would also "let" them use their isks into more meaningful ways.

Of course nobody forces them into using +3/+4 implants as soon as possible, but the incentive to do so is incredibly strong for a new player who wants to get into the game, and have to wait for it because of x skill required to complete his fitting.

It would make nullsec much more ~vibrant~, as people would be more willing to engage in suddent PvP, instead of just waiting for a fleet to form and to get on their "expendable" jump clone.

Hell, it would fucks up a bit with DEM EVIL HIGHSEC GRIEFERS, by removing the possibility to fit a sebo thrasher (or any smartbombing ship) to pop expensive naked pods. That would be just naked pods, which wouldnt be a big loss for most of the players.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#104 - 2012-08-30 12:54:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Andski wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
rodyas wrote:
Look at incursion runners, wouldn't even do those sites,without the force projection given to faction items. Or me doing lvl 3s without force projecting faction items from dodixie.

You do realize that you're using that phrase completely wrong, yes?


My Huginn-bonused FN webs let me project The Force at 100km with bonuses so he's right!


Nice, I am gonna start using my logi ship to force project healing to my BS, be awhile before I get into huginn/webbing the forcing.

Dinosaurs are the greater power at force for everything in the world, they control space, time, and everyone's fate, when you die you don't go to heaven, you shoot up to space where a giant T-Rex in a top hat and monocle shares some tea with you before promptly devouring you whole.


And a perfect ending for why faction items should stay in the system they are bought in. With just a blessing from Andski we can submit this to themittani.com (already being peered review here on the forums) and hopefully gets published in a day or so.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-08-30 13:07:56 UTC
rodyas wrote:
And a perfect ending for why faction items should stay in the system they are bought in. With just a blessing from Andski we can submit this to themittani.com (already being peered review here on the forums) and hopefully gets published in a day or so.

You go do that.

Tell them I said hi.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#106 - 2012-08-30 13:15:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
rodyas wrote:
And a perfect ending for why faction items should stay in the system they are bought in. With just a blessing from Andski we can submit this to themittani.com (already being peered review here on the forums) and hopefully gets published in a day or so.

You go do that.

Tell them I said hi.


Done, and done. Luckily for us, they have a contact us link, then it says feel free to send ideas about posts and stuff like that. We shall see what becomes.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#107 - 2012-08-30 13:17:12 UTC
Roime wrote:
NPCs should pod.


I support this 100%.

But how many neg 10s will be drowning the forums in tears of anguish as their sole source of KMs (high sec miners) is shut off to them?

Mr Epeen Cool
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#108 - 2012-08-30 13:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivory Kantenu
Personally, I think Implants should be removed, Cybernetics should give you the permanent + to attributes, and that's that. Leave the different levels of Skill Hardwiring how they are now. Still need an isk dump for it somewhere.

It would probably impact the market a fair deal, etc, but in all aspects of the game, it improves life for basically every player.

As far as what to do with the Implants left over, there should be an option to turn them in for LP. Maybe Concord would be best. Kind of like a Space Version of 'Guns for Toys' except it's 'Implants for going towards expensive crap'.

[i]Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread[/i]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-08-30 13:40:54 UTC
Ivory Kantenu wrote:
Personally, I think Implants should be removed, Cybernetics should give you the permanent + to attributes, and that's that. Leave the different levels of Skill Hardwiring how they are now. Still need an isk dump for it somewhere.

It would probably impact the market a fair deal, etc, but in all aspects of the game, it improves life for basically every player.

As far as what to do with the Implants left over, there should be an option to turn them in for LP. Maybe Concord would be best. Kind of like a Space Version of 'Guns for Toys' except it's 'Implants for going towards expensive crap'.


Yeah, CCP would have to do something to address the massive number of learning implants in people's hangars. I suppose that they could be "cashed in" at a given LP store for LP and an "ISK credit" (i.e. redeemable only through that LP store) to get other crap. vOv

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#110 - 2012-08-30 13:43:02 UTC
Well about that issue of people using implants from lp stores as a big source of their income or so?

Just introduce new items to replace them?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-08-30 13:48:50 UTC
The answer should be fairly obvious.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#112 - 2012-08-30 13:53:13 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
So a site that shall remain unnamed due to its title, just posted an article on "The Case for Removing Learning Implants"

The best quote from this article was, "Empire players tend to have a huge advantage in this regard - they can do virtually everything with a full +5s and hardwirings since pods can warp out almost instantly in the event that they lose a ship, and NPCs never shoot pods in any case. Players in nullsec generally find themselves with implants that speed up the skills they may be training at that time and inexpensive hardwirings, simply because losing a pod is nearly inevitable after losing a ship when bubbled."

So in reality the whole thread was another "Make Null even safer" thread.

Being that you can still get ganked in Hi-sec and podded, hi sec dwellers still have the ability to have their implants destroyed. The null sec residence how ever has chosen a more PvP based life style with the risks attached.

Removing implants would just be a step in dumbing down EvE and making the Nullbears less risk exposed.
They go on and on about how easy Hi-sec is while fighting to have Null made even safer.

So all in all don't bother reading it, its just more covert Null tears.


Will the terribad null players ever stop crying? Wah wah there's a cloaked neutral in my system, change game mechanics. Wah wah I want my pod to be as safe as hisec player pods. Wah wah whatever.

Man up, nullbears.


Please don't put all null sec players in the same box than EveNews whatever dudes. They're a shame for null sec players.


My apologies if it seemed as though I was. In my mind there are two very distinct types of null sec player. The crybaby sheep-in-wolfs clothing type who are little more than hisec bears, and the *real* null sec players. It's no secret which type write those types of articles, or whine threads, or whatever.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-08-30 13:53:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
nah, just because I choose not to post a link to a specific alliances mouth piece hardly makes it a reason not to post the subject.
So why do you think learning implants should be removed?

For the same reason that the learning skills were removed, they are deemed a neccesity, and not an option

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#114 - 2012-08-30 13:55:33 UTC
Be hard though, every pilot needed 4-5 implants. Though I suppose hoping pvp destroys enough to keep your business going is a bit predatory.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-08-30 13:58:57 UTC
Frying DoomHell wrote:
I always thought that when some one put a case forward it was a set of reasonable arguments or factual statements proving a point. My mistake.

Yes, like your OP....

..ohwait

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-08-30 14:00:08 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Be hard though, every pilot needed 4-5 implants. Though I suppose hoping pvp destroys enough to keep your business going is a bit predatory.

Member of the never-used-attribute-implants club, checking in.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#117 - 2012-08-30 14:01:48 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Frying DoomHell wrote:
.

Yes, like your OP....

..ohwait

Hmmm I like my new name or are you suggesting name change as a feature?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-08-30 14:04:58 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
My apologies if it seemed as though I was. In my mind there are two very distinct types of null sec player. The crybaby sheep-in-wolfs clothing type who are little more than hisec bears, and the *real* null sec players. It's no secret which type write those types of articles, or whine threads, or whatever.


"No true Scotsman"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-08-30 14:13:52 UTC
Pretty funny how you can make a 6 page thread about and article and not a single post actually discussed the article.

Anyway, making this thread about your so called 'nullbears' instead of what the article is really about is pretty stupid, even for you, but I guess preventing newbies from doing PvP in a PvP-centric game is good game design, especially if the big bad goons are against it.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#120 - 2012-08-30 14:18:22 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
nah, just because I choose not to post a link to a specific alliances mouth piece hardly makes it a reason not to post the subject.
So why do you think learning implants should be removed?

For the same reason that the learning skills were removed, they are deemed a neccesity, and not an option


Learning implants are like ships. Everyone has to use them but there are reasonable choices as to which ones to use. Like ships, people can easily switch between them as their needs change.

Just as different ships come with different price tags (and levels of effectiveness) so do implants (learning or otherwise). If you are doing high-risk pvp, you can choose to use a cheap throw-away Rifter and leave your 2.5 BN Tengu at home. Likewise, if you are going to cruise hostile null space, you might hop into a clone with +3s in just a couple skills since the chance of you getting bubbled and podded is high.

The fact that you can get +3 implants with Cybernetics I means that the choice of implants for an early player is largely a factor of ISK, rather than training time. This is what separates Cybernetics and the implants from the learning skills of yore.






In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.