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A simple solution to the Amarr/Minmatar problem

Author
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#1 - 2012-08-29 19:21:52 UTC
This is a simple solution, and the implementation of it is easier now, than it was in the past.

As I am informed by several persons, the area that is the current warzone between the militias has been largely evacuated, as the Republic does not wish for its citizens to be at risk.

So much the better.

Now then, here is the simple solution.

The contested systems in Heimatar and Metropolis, are ceded by the Republic, to form an area of new sovereignty.

Those slaves in the Empire that wish to leave, would have right of residence in this new sovereignty.

So, this new political entitiy, let us call it something like "Autonomous Free Faithful Minmatar Mandate" or some other appropriate thing, shall then administer those systems that the Republic gives up, and they are repopulated by freed slaves from the Empire, who can then live their lives as they choose, not how the Tribal extremists would force them to live.

Since the Shakorite extremists are at least as oppressive as any Theology Council minion.

Everyone benefits.

The Freed Minmatar not being slaves means the cause of conflict is removed.
The Empire gains a friendly neighbour, in the form of the Faithful Minmatar.
The Minmatar get to practice their religion, free of Oppression by the Shakorite extremist Tribals.
The Republic gets rid of systems it didn't want anyway.

Everyone wins.

Of course, I expect the extremist Tribals to decry this idea, claiming it is Amarr Oppresion By Stealth or whatever.

So Be It.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-08-29 19:27:52 UTC
I think it is too many words for a simple solution. Simple solution should be like that:

"Kill all gallenteans".

Before you say it is not related, I answer:
1. Gallentes affect media by dumping huge amounts of cheap liberation and freedom propaganda.
2. Without gallentes we will help the Empire to defeat minmatars with minimal losses.
3. Minmatars will drop desire to fight and resist two superpowers.
4. There will be peace.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-29 19:44:59 UTC
Kim, for once in your worthless existence just shut the hell up.

Amusingly, I see even wolfsbrigade has had enough of you.
Perhaps you should go crawl back up Heth's rectal cavity, as it is obvious to all that it is your point of origin.

-Dilaro
Anslo
Scope Works
#4 - 2012-08-29 19:53:28 UTC
So then you can use whatever underhanded methods you have to continue to feed propaganda to them and, in turn, keep it essentially Amarr, letting Amarr naval ships through, with the Matari loosing more ground...

Any more brilliant ideas?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2012-08-29 20:05:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Something similar has been tried before. It was called the Ammatar Mandate,and its Minmatar leaders eventually showed themselves to be unfit to rule.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-08-29 20:17:57 UTC
This will be the only response i make to your drivel there Blake.
They may have proven themselves unfit in your eyes, but the Nefantar saved an entire people from your kind, and hid them well for hundreds of years.
Such an encompassing act of subterfuge took a great deal of planning and a strong enough leadership to see it through.
They have proven their capabilities as both rulers and Matari.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-08-29 20:32:15 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I think it is too many words for a simple solution. Simple solution should be like that:

"Kill all gallenteans".

Before you say it is not related, I answer:
1. Gallentes affect media by dumping huge amounts of cheap liberation and freedom propaganda.
2. Without gallentes we will help the Empire to defeat minmatars with minimal losses.
3. Minmatars will drop desire to fight and resist two superpowers.
4. There will be peace.


After viewing this I have resisted the urge to go off on a jingoist rant about how uber the Federation is, just thought I would preface with that....

But....

While number one goes without saying, and number two in this day and age is debatable, numbers three and four seem like they were made by someone who really has no concept of the Matari tribal ethic. Even if they should have to stand alone, they will NEVER lose the will to fight, even if the Republic should fall and they're forced back into isolated tribes (which seems very unlikely), they will never lose the will to fight, so to assume that they would lose their way and become a more easily subjugated people just because the Federation wasn't around to provide them with a bit of technical advise is very.... hek I don't even know what word to use.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#8 - 2012-08-29 22:03:58 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Something similar has been tried before. It was called the Ammatar Mandate,and its Minmatar leaders eventually showed themselves to be unfit to rule.


Some of them.

Such a blanket statement does a disservice, I think, to the many who resisted the forces of Treachery, and who help Lord Ardishapur govern Derelik today.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113

Mardon Hashur
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-08-29 22:29:12 UTC
This could be a good idea but at the same time I must raise the same problems that Mr.Blake did

Sincerly Mardon Hashur

Braitai
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-08-30 01:07:00 UTC
All people deserve the right of self determination. I would support a move that created a sovereign state that allowed individuals to acts as they see fit, even to act in accordance with their faith as long as it does not infringe on the freedom of others. Hell, might even build a home in such a place.

However, I would not support the creation of a system where former slaves who are faithful to Amarrian dogma are able to oppress those who reject such fantasies.

Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-30 01:55:08 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Everyone wins.

No, they really don't.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#12 - 2012-08-30 02:27:33 UTC
Whenever people look for the simple solution, they often fail to recognize that said solution kills a whole mess of other people.

I don't care or anything, I just thought I'd point it out. I've killed 57 million or so, and each of their wretched souls takes time to visit me when I sleep. Guilt... I wish they came up with a pill that removes it.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#13 - 2012-08-30 02:53:49 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Whenever people look for the simple solution, they often fail to recognize that said solution kills a whole mess of other people.

I don't care or anything, I just thought I'd point it out. I've killed 57 million or so, and each of their wretched souls takes time to visit me when I sleep. Guilt... I wish they came up with a pill that removes it.


They do. It is called 'penitence'. It is a very bitter pill, easy to gag on, and its effects are slow. But it does exist. The Sisters of Eve are dealers, I believe. At the least, they're nice to talk to.

It sadly does not mix well with other drugs or alcohol. But I hope that you can find some measure of relief soon.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-30 03:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Diana Kim wrote:

"Kill all gallenteans".

Advocating genocide is a new trick for you.
Infomorph Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-08-30 04:16:23 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
57 million... each of their wretched souls takes time to visit me when I sleep.

Exactly how long do you sleep for!?
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-08-30 05:36:31 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Something similar has been tried before. It was called the Ammatar Mandate,and its Minmatar leaders eventually showed themselves to be unfit to rule.


I was going to say that I thought this had been tried before. Whilst some of the leaders of the Ammatar Mandate did, indeed, fail their people as Admiral Blake suggests, I notice that others managed to equally disapoint the Republic by remaining loyal.

Those that wished to leave have now done so, taking the Starkmanir with them. Those that wished to stay have now stayed. So can we decide that the Ammatar Mandate is that buffer zone? Why then is the disagreement between Empire and Republic not over?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-08-30 08:04:35 UTC
Dilaro thagriin wrote:
Kim, for once in your worthless existence just shut the hell up.

Amusingly, I see even wolfsbrigade has had enough of you.
Perhaps you should go crawl back up Heth's rectal cavity, as it is obvious to all that it is your point of origin.

-Dilaro

The only people who are allowed to insult me, are my superior officers.
On the other hand, should I take any barking of tribal dogs on public forums like seriously and refute their groundless drivels?
I don't think so.
However, it would be amusing to hear these barking when met in person and watch as they turn into whines.

Caviar Liberta wrote:
Advocating genocide is a new trick for you.

Im not advocating genocide. It was just a theoretical speculation.
As for myself, I kill only enforcers of gallentean policies and ideals. I do not consider civilians, who are not engaged in anti-State agenda, as valid targets. When the Federation will be out of enforcers, it will become harmless. I won't say it will be nice place to live, but at least it will be harmless to neighbors.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-08-30 08:11:25 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:

While number one goes without saying, and number two in this day and age is debatable, numbers three and four seem like they were made by someone who really has no concept of the Matari tribal ethic. Even if they should have to stand alone, they will NEVER lose the will to fight, even if the Republic should fall and they're forced back into isolated tribes (which seems very unlikely), they will never lose the will to fight, so to assume that they would lose their way and become a more easily subjugated people just because the Federation wasn't around to provide them with a bit of technical advise is very.... hek I don't even know what word to use.

Fight for what? Just to fight? I think you underestimate minmatars. I believe that without heavy gallentean influence they will become reasonable and won't be fighting just for kill or resist like whatever surrounds them just for resisting. Of course, there still will be pirates, brigands and other scum, but I hope that after defeat of the Republic and Federation, majority of minmatar population will return to peaceful coexistence with other cultures around with whatever government form they will establish.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#19 - 2012-08-30 08:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Rodj Blake wrote:
Something similar has been tried before. It was called the Ammatar Mandate,and its Minmatar leaders eventually showed themselves to be unfit to rule.


I would strongly disagree. The Ammatar Mandate has showed the truth of Pax Amarria and what we Amarr should truly be striving for. We see here a society who's ancestry is no different than those of the Republic, yet whom have embraced Amarrian way of life, culture and - most importantly - our religion. Do we keep them in chains like common slaves, then? Of course not, for it is not needed. Thus Ammatar enjoy a sense of autonomy while still being allied to their Amarrian mentors.

In other words, the Ammatar Mandate is a cultural conquest, not a military one. We have, to coin ancient an ancient term, won their hearts and minds. We do not need to keep our fleets in orbit or subjugate them like serfs. Despite a blood kinship with the barbarians across the fence, so to speak, they have proven themselves to perfectly capable of being proper civilized people. Precisely because they are civilized people we treat them as such. The Ammatar, just like the Ni-Kunni and Khanid before them, have (to borrow another ancient phrase) "Seen the Light" and have prospered accordingly.

"Surround yourself with the faithful, stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."


It is important for we Amarrians to remember that our true Divine Mandate is not conquer but to enlighten. Our enslavement of the unenlightened should always be done keeping in mind that the purpose is to actually free them from their previous lives, codifying the penance for their sins, and eventually wipe the slate clean for the day that they accept The Scriptures & our way of life and thus become citizens themselves - just as the Ni-Kunni, the Khanid and Ammatar have done.

"Only through many hardships
Is a man stripped to his very foundations
And in such a state
Devoid of distractions
Is his soul free to soar
And in this
He is closest to God"


What we Ammar should always seek is not new worlds to build military bases & slave pens on, but rather new worlds in which to build temples and libraries. We can accomplish much more spreading the Word to a people than we can by sending in fleets of warships. For in doing so we remove their will to resist without fighting at all. Convert a population peacefully and they will happily join us peacefully as well. It is quite simple: The chains are for those who resist, for the sinful and wicked, for the criminals and terrorists who seek to destroy our great Empire. For those who embrace us willingly, however, those chains are not needed, and being not needed are thus not applied - as the Ammatar Mandate has proven in an exemplary manner.


Why do you think we focus so much more of military efforts defending the Minmatar borders instead of the Gallente? It is simple: Though the Gallente may be corrupt, sinful and decadent, one must still accept that they are civilized. When we offer them peace they generally accept it. Yes, there are still a few malcontents who try to start problems, but it is nothing like the constant under-the-table endorsed terrorism we face along our Minmatar borders. There is still hope for the Gallente. Their nature is not, generally speaking, needlessly violent - again unlike the Minmatar. So for them sending in legions of soldiers is pointless; we can do far more good simply sending in legions of missionaries instead. The Gallente claim to always be open to new ideas, so let's give them some, yes?

As for the Minmatar, on the other hand, I see no reason for invasion but this time for entirely opposite reasons. Being so backwards, violent and xenophobic I seriously doubt our efforts to reconcile with them will ever bear fruit. Their entire society has been built on fighting with us as the one unifying concept that keeps them from completely unraveling back into a bunch of petty, bickering anarchists - and being so, they can never let go of that concept of eternal war with the Amarr, and all things Amarrian for propaganda purposes, as doing so would be their own undoing as such.

Yet I believe that we can still make that happen. Drag the Gallente to the peace table first - it should be easy enough. Show them why their conflict with the Caldari is unwinnable and why their conflict with us is pointless. Thus deprived of their leverage the Minmatar would have little choice to come to the peace table themselves. And peace, as we have already established, is the one thing that would cause their entire "government" to collapse upon itself. A few years of endless civil war amongst themselves and the rest Minmatar tribes should be happy to follow the same path as the Ammatar Mandate, for we shall offer them Salvation from their own Sins.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#20 - 2012-08-30 14:37:34 UTC
The amount of paternalistic, bigoted and outright racist crap being spouted by certain parties in this thread is simply breathtaking.

With attitudes such as these I see that there can never be any kind of peace in this universe. So be it. We deserve nothing better than to perish in flames. Maybe whatever species follows us will have better sense and make better use of these worlds.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

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