Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The only thing wrong with the Bantam is that it looks more like a Minmatar ship than Caldari. Tristan looks nothing like a combat ship - hell, it doesn't even look like a ship. Looks more like one of those ridiculous mechwarrior things.

In any case, I would think sleek looks are more appropriate for a combat ship than a logi.

Thanks CCP, finally the last bastion of decent PvP in Eve is going to be **** up with the same EHP/lolgistics crap you see in every other form of combat.

Station games cannot get worse when you can smartbomb the hell out of these frigs. No swarm of these frigates will be better than a standard T2 logi in most situations.

Damn, any destroyer or tracking cruiser/BC can slaughter these things like mosquitoes. How could they be a balance problem ? They are free killmails awaiting.

Though, in frigates gang, they will be as invaluable as quickly primiried.

Sir, you are out of your mind. It might not be as sexy as the Maulus, but the Tristan is still one of the best looking frigates in the game. If not one of the best looking ships altogether.

It is a work of art.

Dunno whereabouts in the world you're situated, but here in the UK we have an outfit called Specsavers. I can thoroughly recommend them.

NONE of ANY OF YOU have ever flown a Frigate with RR before. EVER.

I have.

Sudden Buggery has done Remote Rep Assault Frigate gangs for the past 2 years. Generally, this is best achieved with a Vengeance and A-type Armour RR, and we also use the Harpy, Jag, Wolf, Enyo, Ishkur. But you can even today do RR frig gangs with Punishers, because they get the resist bonus.

You cannot currently do RR AFs or ANYTHING with small shield transporters on a small hull because they are way too high on CPU. This is not changing substantially with this update: CCP you need to drop these to 35-ish per module, max. I mean, come on.

What is our experience? You know, the actual thing any of you hopeless EFT warriors and armchair ninjas actually lack?

Number one; RR frigs work best against big hulls with bug guns. BS's are a complete pushover, as the guns can't hit frigs well to start with. Drones are easily blapped by RR Vengeances before they can get back inside momma. Versus cruisers and BC's this is moderately harder, except for the Cynabal which gets OMFG tracking and can blap you fairly easily. Against drakes with HMLs you can take 3 RR AFs in against four drakes and survive as long as no one TP's you. Against HAM Drakes, probably infinite. Against smaller hulls and smaller guns and missiles the actual landed damage begins ramping up significantly.

The way it works is like this. RR sprays a certain amount of armour HP onto the target hull. Your tanked DPS is dependent on resists and sig. In the case, cited earlier of a single RR giving a Merlin 300 DPS tank, you also have to consider that the Merlin has a high sig radius, especially with an MSEII aboard (and you'll definitely be fitting that!). Armour RR, working off a low sig radius already (and for god's sakes use ABs) means you combine natively higher resists with stupidly low sig. Hence why the Vengeance is king, and will always be king for this.

Secondly. You have two or more highly maneuverable ships with, at best, a 400mm plate and 85% resists, orbiting one another. Or, actually, the target. If you have a Harpy, Ishkur or Jag you get a utility EWAR slot; every other hull struggles to fit webs, TD's, ECM plus the RR. You orbit your target at 500m, which with your velocity and your buddy's velocity slings you to 1800-2300m, which is within the elliptical orbit range of your small RR.

Sure, the range bonuses on the logi frigs equate to 24km or so rep range, but this is still going to be hard to effectively achieve.

Thirdly, any RR (especially spider-tanking AFs) is very, very player skill intensive. There is infinite opportunity to derp the hell out of it, resulting in dying within seconds. As pointed out, cycle times, available capacitor, the small buffer and the high speed of frigates makes this a very, very difficult gang to pull off. If some clown wants to fit a shield-tanked MWD Condor and hope to get shield reps on him he will have to orbit the logi frigate, or he'll be out of its range inside 3 seconds. Then, 10 seconds later he'll be dead.

Finally, capacitor monitoring on a frigate is hard. THe Vengeance fit we use, it is cap stable. But you will suffer in an ungodly fashion if a BC has a neut, requiring your gang to manage cap. Plus velocity. Plus transversal. Plus landing actual DPS on the foe, plus EWAR modules, monitoring drones, etc etc. It is intense work. Hardly anyone can do this properly first go because unlike RR BS, this happens extremely fast.

So. My opinin, being one of the few people to ever use RR with frigates?

In reality, what will happen is this. People will begin roaming mass frigate logi gangs. They will quickly discover this is extremely hard work, and the majority will give it up. They will lose whole gangs in Rancer to smartbombs, or get their logi blapped by Cynabals, arty ruppies,thrashers and give up.

It might be a lark, a monhly special luls event of EVE Uni. TEST will do suicide frig roams, with marginally more survivabilityfor their kamikazes, but it won't turn them into evil Blob Eats All because it takes skill, which TEST pubbies don't have. RvB will ban logi frigates immediately, and none of them will ever learn how to do it (believe me, I tried RR AFs on a few RvBers and they just wanted to keep welping Rifters).

However, people will begin farming plexes, sanctums, etc with dramiels backed up with logi frigs. People will begin farming sleeper sites up to and including C4s with Navitas/Inquisitor/Vengeance/Daredevil gangs working on small sig-uber RR theorems. This will no longer be the preserve of niche opportunists and masochistic FCs like myself. This will be hilarious if people hotdrop them.

In FW, you will get Loki-Legion boosted Daredevils camping small plexes with a pair of Navitas/Inquisitors. Mediums will be camped by a couple of Vengeances. Shield fleets will soon consist of AB Condor/Kestrel Burst logi gangs.


- shield RR CPU fitting requirements are still far too high. Take the Bantam: 215 CPU. You fit 3 T2 RR's (126), a Upgraded MWD (25), a MSE (34), T2 Invul (44) you have run out of CPU. You still have one midslot and 2 lowslots to fill. I guess one is a CPU, the other is a nano, becuse you are going to be 20 short o

Errrm...confirming that RvB is very much looking forward to logi frigates and the new challenges they will bring - we don't just welp rifters 24/7 you know...don't be such an arrogant turd, even if some of what you say has merit....

You mean except from the obvious total ignorance of EVE lore?

Obvioulsy, you can do whatever you want. Change the stats, and you can make the Bantam into a Tech 2 titan. I'm sure you would agree with me that that would be stupid.

So - even if CCP doesnt seem all that concerned with preserving the lore anymore - at least have the courtesy not to destroy it.

Stealth bombers should be based on combat hulls, like they are today. Its a very easy way to fix this. Just replace the Tormentor with the Inqisitor hull (same stats), and use the Tormentor hull as the basis for the new logifrigate. Problem solved. Lore consistent.

All beeing said and done i personaly think the Logistic line, like all other lines should include Frigates and Battleships. Why have other TII lines available if you don´t include Logistics.

Its a role you can do, do it. Logistic frigates will not unbalance the game in any major way, the´ll only add other options to counter already existing strong fleets.

As an armor hac gang can be used to extreme effectiveness vs a battleship gang, we might start to see an assault frigate gang to the same effectiveness against a armor hac gang. Will this need time to get used to? yes. Is it unbalancing? No.

Remember there are a lot of ways to easily destroy any frig. They are extremely vulnerable to alpha damage and neuting, if there speed and sig radius is reduced (scram web paint) they are killed with one or 2 volleys, there ranges are limited and with the huge difference between individual frigate speeds, extremely hard to manage well.

Yes we can all theorize that annoying scenario where you lose a fight due to the logistic frigate, but seriously its only role will be to keep other frigates alive. And it will be shot down first.

I'm a logistic pilot, with many hours as guardian, basilisk, and Archon, and i've also Fc'd quite a lot. Even with the 50 and 70 km ranges people burn out of rep range within seconds. With 30 km range and the speeds of frigates these situations will happen a lot more often. Most logistic frigate gangs will still take considerable losses due to not realizing the other ships can alpha trough your buffer, moveing out of range logistics getting jammed or neuted or any other mishap that can happen.

In some fleets haveing logistic frigs will only create a false sense of security

So why not stop complaining, and realize a few things.

1) haveing a role start at cruiser level instead of frigate level makes no sense
2) Haveing logistic frigates you will soon find out what best tactics to use against them wich also apply to the bigger variants
3) The "healer" role in any mmo appeals to some players. give them the oppertunity to fullfill that role in all sorts of fleets
4) Frigate logistics will only be used in specialized gangs
5) All other ships are getting rebalanced as well, although the frigates might seem unbalancing strong remember that destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers battleships capital ship and there TII and TIII rebalance is still to come. They will come in line with other ships

I have flown an RR frigate into combat as a matter of fact. Haven't done it much though, I'll admit. But I certainly noticed the stupidly high cpu cost of those shield transporters. You pretty much need a probe frigate to fit them, which doesn't even have enough slots to do it.


I've assumed micro mods in general could fit where you don't have room for a small, though in my 2 years of playing EVE, I've encountered 1, maybe 2 scenarios where a small wouldn't fit and a micro would (that's considering ALL micro modules, not just RR). And I was never able to find a micro at a remotely reasonable price when I wanted it.

I think micro modules would be worth something if their fitting costs were MUCH lower than smalls, say 20-25% of the cpu/powergrid cost. After all, they take up a whole slot and only provide half a bonus. Any ship that would gain a lot from fitting several micros needs a big CPU or powergrid buff.