These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

local blinking, compact local chat, 0.0 too safe is made even more safe

First post
Author
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#61 - 2012-08-29 12:29:11 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
CCP, why U implement a local improvement, when all people consider local as OP.

You first introduced compact view of local which devastated hunting possibilities in many ratting systems, now you BOOSTED the local again over the top and introduced even BLINKING for half-awake people so you cant catch even these anymore!

WHY THE F*CK IS THAT? WHY DO YOU MAKE 0.0 MORE AND MORE SAFE?????????????????
WHO ASKED FOR THIS SH*T!?


True True +1
smokess
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-08-29 12:33:25 UTC
I like the idea of constellation chat in null rather than local. Would give scouting profession a MASSIVE boost.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2012-08-29 12:35:52 UTC
constellation chat instead of local is indeed a very good concept.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-08-29 12:38:25 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:

missions: accepting mission, undocking, leaving system for mission spot sometimes, completing mission objectives which are different any time, return to agent, turn in mission.

And all of that can be done at your own leisure, with absolutely no risk at all, and without any appreciable interruptions whatsoever.

Mark Hadden wrote:
If you sit in a pimped ship, you get suicided.

Don't do that, then.

Mark Hadden wrote:
compared to anoms:
warp into anom, shoot all rats, warp into next anom. Rince and repeat. Keep eye on local, safe up on neutral in local.

Or blues.

Mark Hadden wrote:
this isnt about FW or high sec, its about null being too safe for what it used to be. If you stay awake while ratting you wont ever die.

And compare that to hisec: if you don't fly a pimped ship, you won't ever die.

Mark Hadden wrote:
Revert all local changes done recently, remove compact local view, remove blinking and on top of that add a slight delay to local of 5 seconds or something, making you appear in local really when you are there with loaded grid, not earlier. This is all which I personally would ask for.

For now. Then, a few months later you start whining again about how hard it is to catch a ratter, and you start demanding more nerfs, and more nerfs, and more nerfs.

And suddenly people have to sit there with one alt on each WH entrance, one on each gate, and alts spread evenly across the solar system to run dscan, just to make sure they cover all the solar system, just so they can rat with one guy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-08-29 12:39:23 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
constellation chat instead of local is indeed a very good concept.

Well, I said "a few months", turns out I should've said "a few minutes".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-08-29 12:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
As we've pointed out before, you can't remove local from nullsec because like it or not, 0.0 is not w-space. If you removed local from nullsec it would quickly get so dangerous to do any kind of PVE that nobody would do it at all. Black ops fleets would be extremely overpowered.


Imo make nullsec a constellation-wide chat only. Highsec can have their perfect, system level local. Null has constellation. Wspace is wspace, where the manly men live.

Yeah, the manly men who do all their PVE in cosmic signatures, have the safety of mass limitations and constantly moving entrances and exits, and never ever have to contend with the possibility of being hot dropped.


It's cute that you think moving entrances somehow makes us safer, or that the mass limit make us safe (might be true for babby class wormholes, but no one talks about those). In general though, we're not the ones with an immediate, infallible intel tool telling us exactly who is potentially up to something in our neck of the woods.

Please don't take my comments as an attack on all nullsec players though, it's the nullbears who are the target of my derision. They are seriously worse than hisec bears.

It's cute that you latched onto the weakest points, and completely ignored the most important ones, namely the fact that your PVE is always done in sites that need to be probed out (and therefore dscan will point out any probes that might be leading someone to you), and that you never have to contend with the possibility of being hotdropped. Oh, I might add, your PVE is done in fleets with ships that are typically better fit for PVP than nullsec.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-08-29 12:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Yeep
edit: oops
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-08-29 12:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
Lord Zim wrote:

And compare that to hisec: if you don't fly a pimped ship, you won't ever die.

yeah, thats fine then, its high sec after all so secure up to some point. My point was you can pimp your ship in zero for whatever ISK you wanna spend, while the safety threshold for pimping n high sec is very low (tengus being suicided for 4 CN ballistics).

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
and that you never have to contend with the possibility of being hotdropped..

you CANT be hotdropped too, since there is noone ratting the second before a potential cyno dude enters the system.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Oh, I might add, your PVE is done in fleets with ships that are typically better fit for PVP than nullsec.
so which game mechanic exactly prevents you from doing the same?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-08-29 12:50:45 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
and that you never have to contend with the possibility of being hotdropped..

you CANT be hotdropped too, since there is noone ratting the second before a potential cyno dude enters the system.

Believe it or not your attention can waver after ratting for several hours. Or my system might be secure enough that I don't feel like docking/POSing up whenever I go to the bathroom or grab a drink. Not paying attention, for whatever reason, is what gets ratters killed. I see no problem with this.

Mark Hadden wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Oh, I might add, your PVE is done in fleets with ships that are typically better fit for PVP than nullsec.
so which game mechanic exactly prevents you from doing the same?

The chances of my PVP being on the receiving end of a hot drop makes fitting for PVP kind of moot. I'd still lose my ship either way. By the time my ship is pointed and the cyno's lit, it's pretty much too late to do anything.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-08-29 13:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Believe it or not your attention can waver after ratting for several hours. Or my system might be secure enough that I don't feel like docking/POSing up whenever I go to the bathroom or grab a drink. Not paying attention, for whatever reason, is what gets ratters killed. I see no problem with this.

im all right with this, never moaned about this much actually before CCP started to consequently improve local, which in my experience rapidly lowered my chances of catching something. This is my issue. there was no need for any local buffs.

Mark Hadden wrote:
The chances of my PVP being on the receiving end of a hot drop makes fitting for PVP kind of moot. I'd still lose my ship either way. By the time my ship is pointed and the cyno's lit, it's pretty much too late to do anything.

there you go. In first sentence pvp fitted ships were your argument for better WH bear survivability than zero bears, in the second sentence you nullified your own argument because it didnt make sense for you personally at all.
Down Link
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-08-29 13:02:56 UTC
Was wondering why that damn thing kept blinking
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2012-08-29 13:09:59 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Believe it or not your attention can waver after ratting for several hours. Or my system might be secure enough that I don't feel like docking/POSing up whenever I go to the bathroom or grab a drink. Not paying attention, for whatever reason, is what gets ratters killed. I see no problem with this.

im all right with this, never moaned about this much actually before CCP started to consequently improve local, which in my experience rapidly lowered my chances of catching something. This is my issue. there was no need for any local buffs.

Local hasn't really been buffed. I really don't care about the blinking crap (it's annoying and I don't think it's helpful) but why should I be forced to look at thumbnails of everybody's portrait in local? It's a usability issue, not a local intel buff. Local shows exactly the same information as it did before.

Mark Hadden wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The chances of my PVP being on the receiving end of a hot drop makes fitting for PVP kind of moot. I'd still lose my ship either way. By the time my ship is pointed and the cyno's lit, it's pretty much too late to do anything.

there you go. In first sentence pvp fitted ships were your argument why WH bears live safer than zero bears, in the second sentence you nullified your own argument because it didnt make sense for you personally at all.

Yes, wormholes and nullsec are different. Congratulations for pointing that out.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-08-29 13:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Mark Hadden wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

And compare that to hisec: if you don't fly a pimped ship, you won't ever die.

yeah, thats fine then, its high sec after all so secure up to some point.

And yet people go to hisec (and probably FW as well, now) becaue the effort/reward ratio means they get a much more relaxing gaming experience for not that much less reward.

To counteract this, remove L4s from hisec and nerf the FW farmville. High safety = low reward.
Mark Hadden wrote:
My point was you can pimp your ship in zero for whatever ISK you wanna spend, while the safety threshold for pimping n high sec is very low (tengus being suicided for 4 CN ballistics).

And this has what bearing on how much effort or how unsafe it is in nullsec?

Mark Hadden wrote:
you CANT be hotdropped too, since there is noone ratting the second before a potential cyno dude enters the system.

Yes, the instant you move to nullsec you become this autistic freak who does nothing but stare at the local window 23.5/7, and you don't ever take your eyes off of it.

And there's certainly never been anyone losing supers to hotdrops. Nosirree.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-08-29 13:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Local hasn't really been buffed. I really don't care about the blinking crap (it's annoying and I don't think it's helpful) but why should I be forced to look at thumbnails of everybody's portrait in local? It's a usability issue, not a local intel buff. Local shows exactly the same information as it did before.

many people play on small monitors maybe, which didnt allow local to show everyone in expanded view because of its sheer size. This has been changed significantly, which is clearly a buff, because suddenly you can view the double amount of people at one glance, which means the difference in some systems for spotting neutrals without scrolling local window. For blinking as well, someone will probably be using as extended warning mechanism -> more safety again.
Anyways, if both changes were no buff, then why have they been implemented? We could revert these changes without any safety loss, no?

Lord Zim wrote:
And yet people go to hisec (and probably FW as well, now) becaue the effort/reward ratio means they get a much more relaxing gaming experience for not that much less reward.

I dont know why you are bringing up high sec and FW all the time into a discussion about null sec. This is pretty irrelevant, this thread is not about high sec, nor it is about FW. Its is about constant safing up null sec.

Lord Zim wrote:
And this has what bearing on how much effort or how unsafe it is in nullsec?
Its not about how unsafe high sec is but about how safe null is. You can pimp the heck of your ratting boat, you wont get killed by anyone as long as you stay conscious.

Lord Zim wrote:
Yes, the instant you move to nullsec you become this autistic freak who does nothing but stare at the local window 23.5/7, and you don't ever take your eyes off of it.

you dont need to be an autistic freak for monitoring intel. local changes are very visible as long as the local lies in peripheral vision of your gaming view (which is usually the case). Even more if it is blinking and displays ALL people in local not just subset of them like it was sometimes before certain local buff.

Lord Zim wrote:
YAnd there's certainly never been anyone losing supers to hotdrops. Nosirree.

how many goon supers died to hotdrops over last 6 months?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-08-29 13:20:58 UTC
there are chat channels other than local just f y i

perhaps the collapsible userlists and flashy thing are meant for the chat UI overall, not necessarily just local

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2012-08-29 13:28:43 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Local hasn't really been buffed. I really don't care about the blinking crap (it's annoying and I don't think it's helpful) but why should I be forced to look at thumbnails of everybody's portrait in local? It's a usability issue, not a local intel buff. Local shows exactly the same information as it did before.

many people play on small monitors maybe, which didnt allow local to show everyone in expanded view because of its sheer size. This has been changed significantly, which is clearly a buff, because suddenly you can view the double amount of people at one glance, which means the difference in some systems for spotting neutrals without scrolling local window. For blinking as well, someone will probably be using as extended warning mechanism -> more safety again.
Anyways, if both changes were no buff, then why have they been implemented? We could revert these changes without any safety loss, no?

So what I got from your post was, nerf high resolution monitors.
What about UI scaling? Shall we nerf that as well?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-08-29 13:29:42 UTC
Andski wrote:
there are chat channels other than local just f y i

perhaps the collapsible userlists and flashy thing are meant for the chat UI overall, not necessarily just local


soo, even then. They impacted local amongst other chat windows, so are an implicit issue with local chat.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-08-29 13:31:23 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So what I got from your post was, nerf high resolution monitors.

more strawman pls
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2012-08-29 13:46:45 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So what I got from your post was, nerf high resolution monitors.

more strawman pls

You're whining about such a minor change. Seriously.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-08-29 13:48:43 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
And yet people go to hisec (and probably FW as well, now) becaue the effort/reward ratio means they get a much more relaxing gaming experience for not that much less reward.

I dont know why you are bringing up high sec and FW all the time into a discussion about null sec. This is pretty irrelevant, this thread is not about high sec, nor it is about FW. Its is about constant safing up null sec.

I'm bringing up hisec and FW all the time, because one of the things which make nullsec safe is how depopulated it is. If systems had been more populated, more people would, at any given time, be not paying attention to local and intel channels etc. Hisec and FW are rewarding enough that it makes it worth it to not rat in nullsec, which is the biggest nerf to roaming gangs.

Mark Hadden wrote:
Its not about how unsafe high sec is but about how safe null is. You can pimp the heck of your ratting boat, you wont get killed by anyone as long as you stay conscious.

Again, yes, the instant we go into nullsec we become these freakish autists which do nothing but glare at local all day every day. We never look away.

Mark Hadden wrote:
you dont need to be an autistic freak for monitoring intel. local changes are very visible as long as the local lies in peripheral vision of your gaming view (which is usually the case). Even more if it is blinking and displays ALL people in local not just subset of them like it was sometimes before certain local buff.

I watch TV series on my other monitor while I do my L4 missions, that's how effort they are. Do that in nullsec.

Mark Hadden wrote:
how many goon supers died to hotdrops over last 6 months?

How many goon supers have been ratting the last 6 months? How many alts do those guys keep in the surrounding/leading systems, for added safety?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat