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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Some specific and general PVE/Fitting questions
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Marcus Corvito
Legion Industries
#1 - 2012-08-28 23:32:28 UTC
Hi fellow capsuleers,

I am a month and a half old Gallente pilot flying a Myrmidon for level 3 missions. While I don't have any problems with it, I feel my fit is a little newbish and could be improved upon.

Current fit (obviously I switch the hardeners and drones to current needs):

6x 200mm Compressed Gun I (w/ Antimatter and Lead)
1x 10MN Afterburner II
4x Cap Recharger II
2x Medium Armor Repairer II
2x Armor Thermic Hardener I
2x Armor Kinetic Hardener I
3x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II

Specific questions:

1. Do you think I have too much cap regen on this specific boat/fit (I have Energy Ops IV and Management III)? I feel that the answer is yes, because so far I don't think I ever went below 50-60% cap while doing lvl 3 missions. If I have too much, with what kind of modules/rigs would you replace the extra rechargers and control circuits?

2. Do I have too much tank? I've read the Myrmidon is supposed to be a tanky, slow but steady missioner so I fit it accordingly. But frankly, the missions so far are somewhat of a cakewalk even when I aggro everything. Perhaps this IS precisely because I have lots of tanking power, but still it feels like I should up the damage somehow. What would you fit (instead of what) for this purpose?

3. I've read something about using Shield Tanking on a Myrmidon for level 3 mission Blitzing. I understand the general requirements of shield tanking but I am wondering what do you put into the lows instead? Speed and agility mods for more efficient blitzing?

4. Should I drop a gun or module for some kind of drone-related mod? My drone skills are pretty good already so I can see a synergy, yet it still sounds like a waste. For reference my drones skills are: Drones V, Combat V, Scout V, All Specialist Drones II, Durability III, Navigation and Sharpshooting IV, working on Interfacing IV.

5. Anything else you'd change?

General questions:

1. Is "cap stability" generally considered overkill (and thus, bad) for PvE missions? According to my current understanding, cap stability is okay for newbie PvE but it becomes a bad fitting idea as you grow more experienced. But in some threads I've read that since missions are usually quite long encounters, cap stability is important. Hence, I'm a little confused. When is it important, if not for PvE? Fleet battles?

2. It is my general impression that Shield-based ships with long range artillery (such as the apprently very popular Drake) are considered the best for PvE missions. Yet it seems to me that missions are already too easy. Are we talking purely about efficiency here? Like blitzing all missions, or just generally doing them faster?

Thanks!
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-29 00:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Matriarch Prime
1) You only need as much cap as you anticipate needing for you task. If you don't expect your cap to be drained by your oppoents, you need no more than enough to run whatever modules you have equipped.

2) Tanky is good, especially when first starting out as it gives you more room for error. It is never a bad idea to fit for tank before you fit for gank.

3) Generally shield tanking is preferred for pve, but that is not a hard and fast rule. It is partly for extra hitpoint buffer should things go wrong. But mostly it is because most of the pure % damage increasing modules are low slot modules.

Beyond that I can't really help you as all I really know are minmatar ships. Armor tanking is fine, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. (Us 'matari switch between shield and armor to taste or for specific ship skill bonuses.)

You can usually tell how the ship is designed to fitted by ship bonuses. in your case, the myr's ship boni are drone hitpoints and damage, and armor repair. So, I go with the drones and armor repairers as you have been.

EvE University is a great resource to help you learn the ropes. Here is thier page on the ship (http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Myrmidon), and you can join their channel in-game for advice if you need it. (Click the little chat bubble icon on the chat window to open up window, eve uni is under "Help".) I would also strongly consider joining or reading up on some of their classes. They are real value to this community and you would do well to take advantage of what they have to offer.

edit:

Drone Link augmenter is a high slot module you can use to increase your drone control range. And the low slot damage module from drones is called a drone damage amplifier.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-29 00:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Matriarch Prime
Oh, and to answer your other two questions.

Cap stability is something I would recommend until you get a real feel for all of the mechanics, especially as an armor tanking as the technique of "pulsing" a shield is much different for armor, since it repairs at the end of a cycle. Pulsing a short hand way of meaning manual management of your shield/reps, and can be troublesome if you aren't already familiar with all the other things that you should be doing in a mission.

Drakes a popular largely because they require less training, than other weapon systems, which allows pilots to move into higher content quicker. Whether they should or not is another debate. You chose well though. Us gallente and matari pod pilots have those militarist caldari , and zealous amarr's days numbered. we dont need lasers and missles...we got big honk'n guns!

Not to mention FREEDOM!!!!!one1elventy111!.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-08-29 00:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Matriarch Prime
Anywho hope that helps. I need more coffee. my spelling and grammar is getting atrocious.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Marcus Corvito
Legion Industries
#5 - 2012-08-29 00:52:21 UTC
Very helpful indeed, and much appreciated. Guess I'll stick with this ship for the time being, as I don't really want to cross-train... The myrmidon doesn't seem to be the most efficient mission runner but I do like its tanking power. I'll also look into the mods you mention.

I do however want to try Shields at some point, most likely on a ship better designed for it. At least just to see how it works (you already gave some good pointers). I am already doing some "pulsing" with my low slots, not because I need it to survive the mission but because it's a nice mini-game while doing them (optimizing cap usage).

Apparently some people purposefully disregard the armor bonus on the myrmidon to use Shields for blitzing missions, but they probably have a much better understanding of the game.

Thanks for the help and enjoy the coffee ;)
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#6 - 2012-08-29 02:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gianath
Marcus Corvito wrote:
Hi fellow capsuleers,

I am a month and a half old Gallente pilot flying a Myrmidon for level 3 missions. While I don't have any problems with it, I feel my fit is a little newbish and could be improved upon.

Current fit (obviously I switch the hardeners and drones to current needs):


Thanks!


If you can keep range and respect mission triggers, you can probably afford to drop a couple of hardeners and a rep to add 3 drone damage mods. Honestly though if you intend to stick with missioning, then you should really be focusing your skills into Gallente battleships and sentries so you can start using a Dominix in level 4's where you have a whole lot more room for error and can dish out a lot more damage.
Marcus Corvito
Legion Industries
#7 - 2012-08-29 04:00:25 UTC
That makes a lot of sense and I've already moved battleships/heavies/sentries sooner in my plan. Still weeks to go though.

In the meantime I'm trying to optimize my current ship for efficiency. Level 3 missions are so far much easier than I thought they would be, at least with this ship setup. I guess I can blitz everything but I like the occasional challenge. At least some level 2's were challenging with low skills, even fully tanked.

Seems like switching low's is the way to go. Sacrifice armor for damage (or speed), keep the cap regen, let armor modules run indefinitely. I'm not sure what else I can put in those mid and rig slots anyway.

Thanks for the input
Keno Skir
#8 - 2012-08-29 09:37:44 UTC
Myrmidon will solo lvl4 missions with a similar fit and better skills, many of my corp use them regularly. Be quicker in a battleship though tbh. Even with all the recharge mods your fit beats the hell out of many early players, don't be too hard on yourself :)

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-08-29 10:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Marcus Corvito wrote:
That makes a lot of sense and I've already moved battleships/heavies/sentries sooner in my plan. Still weeks to go though.

In the meantime I'm trying to optimize my current ship for efficiency. Level 3 missions are so far much easier than I thought they would be, at least with this ship setup. I guess I can blitz everything but I like the occasional challenge. At least some level 2's were challenging with low skills, even fully tanked.

Seems like switching low's is the way to go. Sacrifice armor for damage (or speed), keep the cap regen, let armor modules run indefinitely. I'm not sure what else I can put in those mid and rig slots anyway.

Thanks for the input


Your concerns in the OP are all valid. I think that a good fit focuses on damage, damage application and tank, and cap regen should be the very last thing on the list.

Getting T2 is very important with hybrid guns, T2 ammo has very good properties that will make even rails worthwhile... to a certain degree at least.

Consider the fit below for an example of doing it differently (there is no best fit, there is only the best for you and your personal way of doing things). It has better tank, more range with equal tracking, and faster drones with more damage that is better applied when you web targets.

It also features the capacitor booster, that will familiarize you with PVP-style Myrmidon piloting. Using that instead of cap regen modules and rigs teaches better cap management. Yes, you will consume cap booster charges (you can build these consumables yourself and save isk), but it will also "force" you to consider in which order to take out the rats, control your range and cycle the armor repairer only when needed.

Also, train Thermodynamics so you can practice overheating! PVE can be taken as practice for your future in EVE, if it is too easy it gets boring and you probably aren't learning anything. Try out different tactics and fits, push your ship to the edge and you will become a better pilot. Try a blaster Brutix for a completely different experience as wel!

[Myrmidon, Myrmidon PVE one rep]

Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Tracking Computer II
Stasis Webifier II
Drone Navigation Computer II

250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hammerhead II x5

+ other drones to taste

.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-29 10:47:12 UTC
Marcus Corvito wrote:
Hi fellow capsuleers,

I am a month and a half old Gallente pilot flying a Myrmidon for level 3 missions. While I don't have any problems with it, I feel my fit is a little newbish and could be improved upon.

Current fit (obviously I switch the hardeners and drones to current needs):

6x 200mm Compressed Gun I (w/ Antimatter and Lead)
1x 10MN Afterburner II
4x Cap Recharger II
2x Medium Armor Repairer II
2x Armor Thermic Hardener I
2x Armor Kinetic Hardener I
3x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
5x Hobgoblin II
5x Hammerhead II

Specific questions:

1. Do you think I have too much cap regen on this specific boat/fit (I have Energy Ops IV and Management III)? I feel that the answer is yes, because so far I don't think I ever went below 50-60% cap while doing lvl 3 missions. If I have too much, with what kind of modules/rigs would you replace the extra rechargers and control circuits?

2. Do I have too much tank? I've read the Myrmidon is supposed to be a tanky, slow but steady missioner so I fit it accordingly. But frankly, the missions so far are somewhat of a cakewalk even when I aggro everything. Perhaps this IS precisely because I have lots of tanking power, but still it feels like I should up the damage somehow. What would you fit (instead of what) for this purpose?

3. I've read something about using Shield Tanking on a Myrmidon for level 3 mission Blitzing. I understand the general requirements of shield tanking but I am wondering what do you put into the lows instead? Speed and agility mods for more efficient blitzing?

4. Should I drop a gun or module for some kind of drone-related mod? My drone skills are pretty good already so I can see a synergy, yet it still sounds like a waste. For reference my drones skills are: Drones V, Combat V, Scout V, All Specialist Drones II, Durability III, Navigation and Sharpshooting IV, working on Interfacing IV.

5. Anything else you'd change?

General questions:

1. Is "cap stability" generally considered overkill (and thus, bad) for PvE missions? According to my current understanding, cap stability is okay for newbie PvE but it becomes a bad fitting idea as you grow more experienced. But in some threads I've read that since missions are usually quite long encounters, cap stability is important. Hence, I'm a little confused. When is it important, if not for PvE? Fleet battles?

2. It is my general impression that Shield-based ships with long range artillery (such as the apprently very popular Drake) are considered the best for PvE missions. Yet it seems to me that missions are already too easy. Are we talking purely about efficiency here? Like blitzing all missions, or just generally doing them faster?

Thanks!

I would use either 720mm Artillery Cannons or 425mm Autocannons on a Myrmidon, since the Myrm doesn't get a bonus to gun-damage (last I checked anyway), so there's no reason to use Hybrids, if you can save cap using Arties. Saving cap would also mean wasting less med-slots on Cap Rechargers.

Other than that, I'd fit 2 of each mission-specific T2 Armor Hardener, and two Medium Armor Repairer IIs if I can run it while being cap-stable.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-08-29 11:12:52 UTC
Hybdrids are a bit better against Serp rats due to their damage type, higher dps and tracking. But true about the cap usage.

.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-08-29 12:54:17 UTC
If your missions are very easy, if your completing them with out really ever stressing your cap you can start trading in cap mods for damage increase mods for drones, either Omni tracking link II's in the mids, or Drone damage mods in the lows.

Use Mission Survival, to know your mission triggers, agro groups, and what kind of damage to expect.

My mission running alt has a Shield tanking domi that is far from cap stable, but he only has to warp out on one mission, the damsel, and its because dps is overwhelming, not because im running out of cap. The rest of the time with the freed up lows 3 drone damaga mods and perfect drone skills he puts out roughly 1000dps at 40km or less Drones + guns.

In other words, if your missions are too easy, start trading stability or tank(with in reason mind you) For greater dps, so you can fly through those missions and get your just rewards. Its nice when your tank is no longer cap stable it becomes more engaging and more of a test of piloting skills and cap management and less of a slow grind:"warp in, grab agro, perma tank, warp out."

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.
Marcus Corvito
Legion Industries
#13 - 2012-08-29 20:07:43 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Myrmidon will solo lvl4 missions with a similar fit and better skills, many of my corp use them regularly. Be quicker in a battleship though tbh.

Level 4's eh? Well I'm not really surprised, seeing how tough this ship can be. I'm almost tempted to try that right after Hull Upgrades V ;) Realistically though I'll probably have to wait for a Dominix and/or much better skills. I think I've only ever fought one NPC battleship and it took a while to kill...

Roime wrote:
[Myrmidon, Myrmidon PVE one rep]

Very interesting suggestions. I'm planning to get T2 hardeners and ammo/weapon modules soon so I'll be able to try this fit (minus the guns perhaps, as I'm not sure I can fit them). Guess I'll get Armor Rigging and Thermodynamics too. In fact I completely forgot about overheating... sounds like a nice gameplay mechanic.

I also like the idea of learning to use Cap Boosters as an alternative to cap rechargers, at least just to get experience using them. Frees up a lot of mids too. Wasn't too sure what to replace them with but drone/tracking mods sound good.

Plaude Pollard wrote:
I would use either 720mm Artillery Cannons or 425mm Autocannons on a Myrmidon, since the Myrm doesn't get a bonus to gun-damage (last I checked anyway), so there's no reason to use Hybrids, if you can save cap using Arties. Saving cap would also mean wasting less med-slots on Cap Rechargers.

You're right it doesn't have any turrent bonus so projectile weapons sound like a nice alternative. I'm not sure I want to cross-train for them yet, but I certainly will later on after I get a few more gunnery skills. Or sooner if my new fit turns out to require more cap than expected.

Lyric Lahnder wrote:
Its nice when your tank is no longer cap stable it becomes more engaging and more of a test of piloting skills and cap management and less of a slow grind:"warp in, grab agro, perma tank, warp out."

Yep that's exactly what I'm looking to avoid. I am becoming way too complacent and the missions are a grind, I might as well just mine at this point. With all these tips I should be able to bring back the challenge while keeping good efficiency.


Alright, time to go try all these ideas! Cheers guys.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-29 20:20:34 UTC
Lyric Lahnder wrote:
In other words, if your missions are too easy, start trading stability or tank(with in reason mind you) For greater dps, so you can fly through those missions and get your just rewards. Its nice when your tank is no longer cap stable it becomes more engaging and more of a test of piloting skills and cap management and less of a slow grind:"warp in, grab agro, perma tank, warp out."

I do this with my other char in a Shield-tanked Tempest. Puts out about 1020 DPS (Drones and Implants included), but the ship's tank is just the same as for incursions (about 15k Shield HP, 70% or higher on all resists). Gives a nice challenge, without making the missions that much harder. Also makes them a lot faster to complete than actually tanking the ship.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.