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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Of Squid and Peacocks or The Differences between State and Federation
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#21 - 2012-08-28 16:52:53 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
Oh wow, and an Amarrian gone Nation too... just keeps getting better by the post. Sad


Ad hominem. Comment please.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-08-28 17:02:06 UTC
I do not feel obligated to comment on anything at this point "Mr. Thessalonia", frankly I'm getting a wee bit bored with the words of those who oppose the Federation and it's ways. Unless I start seeing some beneficial dialogue I think I'll be refraining from the petty arguments this IGS feed has been so far. I did not initiate this topic just to be picked on by a bunch of collectivists and zealots, theres far too many other feeds for that already.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#23 - 2012-08-28 17:07:39 UTC
"These people do not agree with me and are actively disproving my claims meant to jingoise the discussion! HELP! HELP! I'm being oppressed!"

Answer the charge that you have been deliberately dishonest. Maybe then your word will be worth a damn.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-08-28 17:12:54 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
"These people do not agree with me and are actively disproving my claims meant to jingoise the discussion! HELP! HELP! I'm being oppressed!"

Answer the charge that you have been deliberately dishonest. Maybe then your word will be worth a damn.

At what point did I ever give the impression that I CARED if you felt my words were "worth a damn", sanshabot?

I will NOT argue with you "Mr. Thessalonia", go away.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#25 - 2012-08-28 17:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberious Thessalonia
Paul Oliver wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
"These people do not agree with me and are actively disproving my claims meant to jingoise the discussion! HELP! HELP! I'm being oppressed!"

Answer the charge that you have been deliberately dishonest. Maybe then your word will be worth a damn.

At what point did I ever give the impression that I CARED if you felt my words were "worth a damn", sanshabot?

I will NOT argue with you "Mr. Thessalonia", go away.


Im not asking you to argue with me. I'm asking you to answer the legitimate claims that you have misrepresented your arguement, through malice or ignorance, and hence damaged your credibility. The answer to this is to provide a reason for your malfeasance, admit your error, apologize to the people whom you have been misrepresenting, and hope it all goes away and we forget about this.

Elsewise, every time you speak, this is going to come up, until we get bored.

Edit: Also, continued use of ad hominem in order to deflect the discussion.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-08-28 17:31:29 UTC
It is simple really.

The Caldari think they are right and don't mind other cultures being wrong.

The Gallente think they are right and can't abide other cultures being wrong.

It is a gross generalization on an utterly unacceptable scale, but personal experiences force me to admit the generalization does have some validity, at least as far as my personal experiences go. I can't really comment on things of the scale you've requested without generalizing, and simply put, I know precious little about each culture outside of smatterings of spiritual beliefs.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#27 - 2012-08-28 17:31:56 UTC
I'm confused, sir. It's a feeling I'm well used to, so it doesn't worry me very much. Still, however, I have to ask.

Why do you continually insult the people you are trying to engage? Every time you speak of the Caldari, you use insulting terminology: "colorblind", "grey", "soulless", "'butch' Caldari women", Every time you speak of your own people, you are "bombastic", "attractive", "taste[ful]". You consistently use words describing us as bad, wrong, heartless. You consistently use words describing yourselves as good, attractive, soulful. Are you actually interested in talking with us, or are you only interested in insults?

If the former, please consider using fewer adjectives! You will find that the reactions you get will be more positive. Also, the distance will give you a new, clearer perspective.

If it is the latter, then you should be unsurprised by the reaction, and it overall reveals a great deal about your character.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-28 17:34:57 UTC
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
It is simple really.

The Caldari think they are right and don't mind other cultures being wrong.

The Gallente think they are right and can't abide other cultures being wrong.

It is a gross generalization on an utterly unacceptable scale, but personal experiences force me to admit the generalization does have some validity, at least as far as my personal experiences go. I can't really comment on things of the scale you've requested without generalizing, and simply put, I know precious little about each culture outside of smatterings of spiritual beliefs.

I appreciate your honesty and candor maam. Which is all the more reason why I hope eventually members of the Federation might come forward and speak up. Otherwise I really see no point in this thread.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-08-28 17:36:22 UTC
Mister Thessalonia,

It is obvious this particular thread was created with little more in mind than a cesspool of dialogue regarding the supremacy of one group of people over another, at least if the author's words and responses have any reflection on it. Continuing to seek anything resembling a legitimate response will be a massive waste of your time, so unless you find it intrinsically entertaining...

Mister Oliver,

I reiterate that it is painful to see that you so quickly abandoned the well reasoned and patient responses you began your career with. What are you hoping to accomplish by this discussion? Why have your responses been so venomous if your interest isn't in insult and instigation?

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#30 - 2012-08-28 17:39:25 UTC
Oh, I do, Amith; I do. Stomping someone's poorly constructed logical-fallacy-filled jingoist argument into the ground is one of the things that really gets my juices flowing, so to speak.
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-08-28 17:44:10 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I'm confused, sir. It's a feeling I'm well used to, so it doesn't worry me very much. Still, however, I have to ask.

Why do you continually insult the people you are trying to engage? Every time you speak of the Caldari, you use insulting terminology: "colorblind", "grey", "soulless", "'butch' Caldari women", Every time you speak of your own people, you are "bombastic", "attractive", "taste[ful]". You consistently use words describing us as bad, wrong, heartless. You consistently use words describing yourselves as good, attractive, soulful. Are you actually interested in talking with us, or are you only interested in insults?

If the former, please consider using fewer adjectives! You will find that the reactions you get will be more positive. Also, the distance will give you a new, clearer perspective.

If it is the latter, then you should be unsurprised by the reaction, and it overall reveals a great deal about your character.

How can I put this any more bluntly than I already have. I did not establish this feed just to hear the words of a bunch of State collectivists. Your opinions and thoughts are well documented in a variety of other feeds. So no, I am NOT interested in talking to you, I have been talking to you in many other feeds and I feel like I have jack poo to show for it. What I AM interested in is a dialogue between State and Federation that I might gain some insight from. And as for any perceived attack on my credibility is concerned, lady I'm a feckin student! I really doubt I'm the first overly idealistic FNA cadet to speak at this summit, and I doubt I'll be the last. I will readily concede that I never had any credibility to be attacked in the first place so why the hell would I take such allegations seriously? Oh and as far as my use of a thesaurus is concerned I rather fancy peppering my submissions with different words of similar meaning when they're called for multiple times.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Faelan Maris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-08-28 17:44:47 UTC
I find it ironic that someone so set on defending the superiority of the Gallentean love of diversity refuses to accept other peoples' opinions as having any worth. You do realize that there are proponents of "Caldari Minimalism" in the Federation, do you not? But rather than value that particular type of diversity, you make fun of it. And your best comeback is an ad hominem about our appearances? Your Gallentean respect for multiple voices and opinions truly staggers me! If I have a jumpclone sculpted to look like some Gallente holoreel star will my opinions be worth your time?

If you are going to be an intellectual zealot, you might as well shut down your voice as well as your mind. I am anti-Gallente in a number of ways, but I like to acknowledge the strengths of your people as well as your blind spots and biases, and am perfectly willing to have my own pointed out.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#33 - 2012-08-28 17:47:01 UTC
It will be difficult for you to have any interaction worth having, Captain Paul Oliver, if your first reaction to any Caldari is to call them ugly and tell them they are stupid, emotionless robots.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-08-28 17:47:58 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
I did not initiate this topic just to be picked on by a bunch of collectivists and zealots.


Given the content of your own thoughts here and elsewhere, I would venture the purpose of this, "Discussion", was not to engage in a debate but in political self-aggrandizement out of patriotic spirit to the Federation. There is nothing wrong with feeling pride in ones own nation, in fact it is laudable, however there exists the blind patriotism that knows only ignorance, hatred and the waving of flags and another form of patriotism that finds its roots in self-respect, pride, faith, belief and love for ones own people and heritage. One is to be respected for it instills virtue and purpose in the individual and the other is to be abhorred for it breeds nothing more than pointless idiocy through hate and ignorance.

Now, when the only descriptions used for the Caldari and Amarr are to be, "Collectivist" and "Zealot" I do not think that describing two entire cultures encompassing trillions of people by nothing more than two empty words gives the impression that you are seeking knowledge and understanding in good faith since, frankly, it's nothing short of insulting. Do not pout and and cry foul then when contrary arguments are presented (Free speech can cut both ways, no?) to refute your own poorly constructed thoughts. Nor be offended or feel victimized when through your own ignorance and thinly-veiled insults find your opinions met with mockery and derision from others.

You could always get a syndicated show in the Federation where you express your own brand of fair and balanced Federal patriotism to an audience that already agrees with you if you find thoughts and opinions contrary to your own so offensive.


Kurilaivonen|Concern
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#35 - 2012-08-28 17:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Paul Oliver wrote:

Funny I don't even see any domes on the Caldari station, just a bunch of souless grey flat planes and sharp edges on a drab and uninspiring space dwelling.


Try looking harder. Even the example station you gave has one.


To be fair, it's not a dome in the same sense of the ones on the Gallentean station he gave as an example. That particular design of station is basically a cone shape with a domed cap on the wide end, and a network of smaller constructs within the outer cone-shaped shell. The narrow bottom end is entirely open to space, as is the interior of the 'cone'.

It's certainly dome-shaped, though.

(That said, the State's "trading" station design does actually have a proper sealed dome, but it isn't visible in the stock inventory holo for the model.)

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-08-28 17:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Oliver
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
It will be difficult for you to have any interaction worth having, Captain Paul Oliver, if your first reaction to any Caldari is to call them ugly and tell them they are stupid, emotionless robots.


Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Given the content of your own thoughts here and elsewhere, I would venture the purpose of this, "Discussion", was not to engage in a debate but in political self-aggrandizement out of patriotic spirit to the Federation.


I guess I have to say this one more time because I just keep saying it and it doesn't seem to sink in. I DID NOT ESTABLISH THIS FEED TO HAVE PERSONAL INTERACTIONS WITH ANYONE, I established it to watch discourse among other members of the Federation and citizens of the other factions, particularly the State, so that I might gather a better understanding of the relations between each, not to sit here and repeat myself to a bunch of one sided capsuleers by saying the same bloody things I've said in a half dozen other feeds.

With that said I'm going to refrain from posting to this feed for the time being in the hopes that it might blossom into what it was intended for, and if it doesn't may it quickly fade into obscurity.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#37 - 2012-08-28 18:04:43 UTC
I am not a 'squid', so I'm not really a part of this conversation.

Katrina Oniseki
Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-08-28 18:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Azdan Amith
Paul Oliver wrote:

I guess I have to say this one more time because I just keep saying it and it doesn't seem to sink in. I DID NOT ESTABLISH THIS FEED TO HAVE PERSONAL INTERACTIONS WITH ANYONE, I established it to watch discourse among other members of the Federation and citizens of the other factions, particularly the State, so that I might gather a better understanding of the relations between each...


Really? Let's examine the posting order for this thread then, shall we?

  • Paul Oliver - original post
  • Makkal Hanaya
  • Shaalira D'arc
  • Paul Oliver - Directly responding to Makkal Hanaya
  • Makkal Hanaya
  • Paul Oliver - Directly responding to Makkal Hanaya and admitting to Shaalira that the point of this thread was an intended invitation for the exact bile Paul will continue to spew for the remainder of the thread
  • Katran Luftschreck
  • Paul Oliver - Directly responding to Katran Luftschreck
  • Azdan Amith
  • Veikitamo Gesakaarin
  • Faelan Maris
  • Katrina Oniseki
  • Tiberious Thessalonia
  • Faelan Maris
  • Scherezad
  • Scherezad
  • Paul Oliver -Directly responding to Faelan Maris
  • Tiberious Thessalonia
  • Paul Oliver - Directly responding to Tiberious Thessalonia
  • Paul Oliver - Directly attacking Tiberious Thessalonia and inviting further discource
  • Tiberious Thessalonia
  • Paul Oliver - Directly responding to Tiberious Thessalonia
  • Tiberious Thessalonia
  • Paul Oliver - Directly responding to Tiberious Thessalonia
    • [...]


I could keep going but the point is made. What you say you started this thread for and how you've chosen to interact in this thread are completely opposite of one another.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-08-28 18:16:21 UTC
That's true, but it doesn't negate the reason I started it. The only thing it proves is that I am Gallentean perhaps at times to a fault and too often I respond when I shouldn't. But like I said I'm young and the young often do that, so maybe my only real mistake was expecting to learn something about my culture and it's relations with other factions from this summit.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#40 - 2012-08-28 18:21:47 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
How can I put this any more bluntly than I already have. I did not establish this feed just to hear the words of a bunch of State collectivists. Your opinions and thoughts are well documented in a variety of other feeds. So no, I am NOT interested in talking to you, I have been talking to you in many other feeds and I feel like I have jack poo to show for it. What I AM interested in is a dialogue between State and Federation that I might gain some insight from. And as for any perceived attack on my credibility is concerned, lady I'm a feckin student! I really doubt I'm the first overly idealistic FNA cadet to speak at this summit, and I doubt I'll be the last. I will readily concede that I never had any credibility to be attacked in the first place so why the hell would I take such allegations seriously? Oh and as far as my use of a thesaurus is concerned I rather fancy peppering my submissions with different words of similar meaning when they're called for multiple times.


Paul Oliver wrote:
With that said I'm going to refrain from posting to this feed for the time being in the hopes that it might blossom into what it was intended for, and if it doesn't may it quickly fade into obscurity.


I see. You came to an international forum to speak to the Caldari and to see the interaction between the State and Federation. You (perhaps unwittingly, I'll be generous) filled your speech with slander and insults against the Caldari, and are now on the defensive as the Caldari take exception to your comments. Now you retreat, finding few people agreeing with you.

I am done being kind. You, sir, are a coward. You hide behind insults, ad hominem attacks, and the shield of "I'm just a student!" when anyone opposes your slanted opinions, and flee once you realize you speak alone. I will not cease in replying to you so long as you continue to insult my friends, allies, and family. I'm sorry, but this isn't your comfortable campus where everyone has the same general opinion on the Caldari. Choose your words more carefully if you are interested in honest discussion.

If you want to speak insults, expect us to reply. Be glad we choose to use words alone at this juncture.

Many profits to you, Pilot Oliver. May you spend them wisely.