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Some freighter questions
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Dautrin Maize
Peirmont Industries
#1 - 2012-08-27 11:10:59 UTC
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#2 - 2012-08-27 11:39:09 UTC
1. Don't do drugs! Fleet if at all.

2. They are used to haul. Move big things that you find profitible.

3. Depends on current prices. Do the Math.
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#3 - 2012-08-27 12:17:38 UTC
1. Yes, no lowsec or null shenanigans without friends

2. Generally you don't make huge profit from freighters. You could try trading, moving large items, or large quantities of small items, to systems where you get a better price. Not much profit in building T2 ships either, too many people in the market.

3. Again generally the price difference between building a ship yourself and buy a ready made one is pretty small, the ready made can sometimes be cheaper. If you are going to need to train additional skills, it definitely isn't worth it unless you plan on building a significant number of freighters.

As with so much of Eve industry industry, you need to get the spreadsheet out.

If you only need a freighter rarely, you can buy it, do what you need to and sell it again for minimal cost or maybe even a profit. No sense in leaving a huge chuck of isk tied up in you hanger unnecessarily. Certainly takes the self inflicted pressure of 'I've paid a fortune for this ship I need to make huge amounts of isk from it'.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#4 - 2012-08-27 16:13:28 UTC
I would not think of a freighter as an "isk making ship". Mainly useful if you find yourself moving large amounts of items around and want to cut down on the time/m3 with big loads. I think of them as more of a utility ship for me so I can move my ships and items around.

If you want to make a profit from it you'll either have to buy low -> Freight -> sell high elsewhere, or do contracts moving m3 for others. Be aware that people do use this to scam you of the deposit sometimes.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-08-27 16:20:07 UTC
Dautrin Maize wrote:
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.


Freighters are expensive (as you know), and if you're not sure what you'd do with one, don't buy one. If you just need the occasional hauling job done, hire a firm like Red Frog to do it -- much cheaper. Freighters are hard to gank because they have a lot of HP, but in lowsec determined gangs can pop them because freighters are slow as s**t. In null, of course, there's nothing stopping a group of capitals from slagging a freighter in about ten seconds.

I can almost promise you that you won't be able to save any money on building your own freighter versus buying one on the market unless you have maxed all your relevant skills.

In short: make sure you have enough reason to own a freighter to justify the huge investment in owning one. For solo players and small corps, it usually makes more sense to use contract hauling services like Red Frog instead.
Immortis Zenz
Onyx Moon Industries
#6 - 2012-08-27 16:23:28 UTC
Dautrin Maize wrote:
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.


1) Taking a regular freighter into lowsec is suicide; I don't care if you have 15 guys with you. Anyone from any corp within 10 jumps will tell all their friends that a big whale has just entered lowsec. It might take 3 corps to take you down but with that freighter on scene the worst enemies will become best friends until that thing goes pop. NEVER in low sec... Also, they can bump you off your flightpath and you will not hit warp, even if they don't have you scrammed.

2) As others have said, haulin stuff throughout highsec is your best bet. What kind of ships are you talking about? If you are moving small ships I would suggest an Orca over a freighter. Hauling ravens would be out of the question but a couple BCs in cargo and a few smaller assembled ships is reasonable.

3) Building a capital ship is a royal pain in the @$$. With current prices on freighters and minerals I don't think you would see much of a win over buying one right now. Plus you have the headache of actually building it and if you don't have the skills it will be way too expensive.

Zenz
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#7 - 2012-08-27 16:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Dautrin Maize wrote:
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.


1. You don't really NEED a fleet for low sec, but you do need a scout. There's some aggro mechanics bullshit you can still do if you're so inclined. Also, it's hilarious to have a cap fleet on standby when you're freighter running through low sec. Lol

2. I don't use my freighter for profit really. A long time ago I put up 2 jump buy orders on minerals and AFKed my freighter to pick it all up in turn. A bit of work but it's alright if you don't mind it taking 4-5 hours to pick up some minerals. :)

3. You're an industrialist. Do the math yourself, but I suspect you can save 50-100m.

-Liang

Ed: I should point out that the profit from #2 really came from market PVP. Driving the price of Ruptures from 4.5m -> 8m and selling 200 Ruptures was just comedy gold.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2012-08-27 16:32:03 UTC
For the average small time builder, an Iteron V is the way to go.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#9 - 2012-08-27 16:33:14 UTC
Immortis Zenz wrote:
Dautrin Maize wrote:
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.


1) Taking a regular freighter into lowsec is suicide; I don't care if you have 15 guys with you. Anyone from any corp within 10 jumps will tell all their friends that a big whale has just entered lowsec. It might take 3 corps to take you down but with that freighter on scene the worst enemies will become best friends until that thing goes pop. NEVER in low sec... Also, they can bump you off your flightpath and you will not hit warp, even if they don't have you scrammed.

2) As others have said, haulin stuff throughout highsec is your best bet. What kind of ships are you talking about? If you are moving small ships I would suggest an Orca over a freighter. Hauling ravens would be out of the question but a couple BCs in cargo and a few smaller assembled ships is reasonable.

3) Building a capital ship is a royal pain in the @$$. With current prices on freighters and minerals I don't think you would see much of a win over buying one right now. Plus you have the headache of actually building it and if you don't have the skills it will be way too expensive.

Zenz


So risk averse. Do you have toe stubbing insurance by chance?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-08-27 16:51:09 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Immortis Zenz wrote:
Dautrin Maize wrote:
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.


1) Taking a regular freighter into lowsec is suicide; I don't care if you have 15 guys with you. Anyone from any corp within 10 jumps will tell all their friends that a big whale has just entered lowsec. It might take 3 corps to take you down but with that freighter on scene the worst enemies will become best friends until that thing goes pop. NEVER in low sec... Also, they can bump you off your flightpath and you will not hit warp, even if they don't have you scrammed.

2) As others have said, haulin stuff throughout highsec is your best bet. What kind of ships are you talking about? If you are moving small ships I would suggest an Orca over a freighter. Hauling ravens would be out of the question but a couple BCs in cargo and a few smaller assembled ships is reasonable.

3) Building a capital ship is a royal pain in the @$$. With current prices on freighters and minerals I don't think you would see much of a win over buying one right now. Plus you have the headache of actually building it and if you don't have the skills it will be way too expensive.

Zenz


So risk averse. Do you have toe stubbing insurance by chance?

-Liang


In fairness, the only people who should be taking a freighter out of highsec should be experienced enough to not be relying on a public forum thread for advice.
Immortis Zenz
Onyx Moon Industries
#11 - 2012-08-27 16:55:57 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Immortis Zenz wrote:
Dautrin Maize wrote:
I'm getting close to being able to fly freighters (sadly...not so close to being able to afford one...), but I'm a little curious about a few things.

1). They have no slots for modules. So, do you just never take 'em into low-sec/null-sec without a fleet for protection? Presumably, despite it taking a long time to pop...you can't escape from a point/scram? So unless you can make it to a gate, you're gonna eventually get popped, right?

2). How do you use a freighter for profit? Mostly, I just want one to move stuff around. I determined I needed one when I started doing Invention and needed to move large amounts of T1 ships to a station with a lab...

3). Would it be significantly cheaper to buy a freighter BPC on a contract and build it from cap materials? I realize it would take more work and some construction skills.


1) Taking a regular freighter into lowsec is suicide; I don't care if you have 15 guys with you. Anyone from any corp within 10 jumps will tell all their friends that a big whale has just entered lowsec. It might take 3 corps to take you down but with that freighter on scene the worst enemies will become best friends until that thing goes pop. NEVER in low sec... Also, they can bump you off your flightpath and you will not hit warp, even if they don't have you scrammed.

2) As others have said, haulin stuff throughout highsec is your best bet. What kind of ships are you talking about? If you are moving small ships I would suggest an Orca over a freighter. Hauling ravens would be out of the question but a couple BCs in cargo and a few smaller assembled ships is reasonable.

3) Building a capital ship is a royal pain in the @$$. With current prices on freighters and minerals I don't think you would see much of a win over buying one right now. Plus you have the headache of actually building it and if you don't have the skills it will be way too expensive.

Zenz


So risk averse. Do you have toe stubbing insurance by chance?

-Liang


I don't consider a billion dollar ship w/ cargo to be 'risk' as much as suicide. I've taken orcas into low sec and had successful runs. A scout, cloaking device, and clever use of bookmarks can get you through but a freighter in LS is like throwing blood in shark infested water.

Also note that I said regular freighter. If you have a jump freighter the plan changes quite a bit.

Zenz
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#12 - 2012-08-27 17:54:46 UTC
Immortis Zenz wrote:

I don't consider a billion dollar ship w/ cargo to be 'risk' as much as suicide. I've taken orcas into low sec and had successful runs. A scout, cloaking device, and clever use of bookmarks can get you through but a freighter in LS is like throwing blood in shark infested water.

Also note that I said regular freighter. If you have a jump freighter the plan changes quite a bit.

Zenz


A little bit of preparation goes a long way. I've walked freighters all over Minmatar, Gallente, and Amarr low sec and never had any real problems. I tend to bust out the freighter in low sec for moon goo, cap building, or ship resupply. We were careful with them, sure, but saying it's suicide is patently ridiculous.

Like I said, you generally want a Rapier and Falcon when you're taking a freighter through low sec. Having a cap fleet on standby is also really nice. I'd say I wouldn't take my freighter through low sec without a fleet backing me, but it'd be a lie.

I did it yesterday.

MushroomMushroom wrote:

In fairness, the only people who should be taking a freighter out of highsec should be experienced enough to not be relying on a public forum thread for advice.


Heh, alright I buy that.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-27 17:56:37 UTC
Immortis Zenz wrote:


I don't consider a billion dollar ship w/ cargo to be 'risk' as much as suicide. I've taken orcas into low sec and had successful runs. A scout, cloaking device, and clever use of bookmarks can get you through but a freighter in LS is like throwing blood in shark infested water.

Also note that I said regular freighter. If you have a jump freighter the plan changes quite a bit.

Zenz



Proper application of game mechanics from a support pilot make it no easier to catch a freighter on a gate then most cruisers. Combined with proper scouting you should be able to move a freighter through lowsec with relative safety.
Shiganaru
Ignis Aeternus Imperium
#14 - 2012-08-28 00:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiganaru
#1
Even with a good fleet, it is very risky moving a freighter around low-sec or null-sec. It can be done, but I would not recommend it unless absolutely necessary.

In a lot of cases though, using a jump-capable ship, such as a Carrier, Jump Freighter, or Rorqual, is a better option over manually moving a normal freighter through low-sec or null-sec.

#2
You profit with freighters by moving goods, buying low, and selling high. The time you save moving large quantities of materials in a freighter over a smaller transport ship, can be seen as a profit by many.

#3
If you only consider the minerals needed to build the freighter, it is cheaper than market; however, the BPOs and BPCs needed to make them cost a fortune and eat up the what little profit you get.

If you had fully researched capital component and freighter BPOs, you can make quite a bit of ISK making freighters.
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#15 - 2012-08-28 02:29:20 UTC

1) No, it has no slots to fit modules or rigs. It's just a big, slow brick that can haul enormous amounts of stuff. There are many markets to trade and build in that require a ship of this size.

2) First advice: A freighter by itself cannot make you ISK, so don't get yourself one unless you will have at minimum several hundred million ISK to invest in stuff to haul.

3) You're probably best off just buying one.
Dautrin Maize
Peirmont Industries
#16 - 2012-08-28 10:51:16 UTC
Quote:
In fairness, the only people who should be taking a freighter out of highsec should be experienced enough to not be relying on a public forum thread for advice.


That was the money-quote I was looking for on point #1. Thanks.

As far as building one vs. buying one, I wasn't sure and wanted to ask. I'd seen a BPC in a contract for only 39mil ISK, but figured the materials would be tough to find and/or extremely expensive. I was pretty surprised at the cost of materials for building T2 ships, so I figured building a freighter would be shockingly expensive.

And regarding point #2, I don't see the freighter as an investment for profit - I just want the utililty. But was wondering how people make money with a freighter specifically.

I generate ISK fairly quickly via L4 missions, mining/manufacturing, and selling loot/LP goods. It's a stretch to save up the cash for a freighter, but easy enough. This may sound blasphemous...but I don't really care about "profit" per se. That is, I like to make money, but I'm more interested in having fun and learning how to do new stuff.

Thanks for all the posts. You guys are always helpful Big smile