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Rookie System Page Update

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-08-28 03:03:14 UTC
pretty sure the rules don't allow older players to hide behind rules meant to "protect" newbies

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#102 - 2012-08-28 03:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
well hell as EVE players have shown time and time again; you can exploit any system

and if youre creative about it you might not even get baned

IE the 9 trillion isk thing. They just got the money removed. Didnt sdtop them bitching on the forums for like a week cause CCP was piocking on them tho lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2012-08-28 03:10:28 UTC
Andski wrote:
pretty sure the rules don't allow older players to hide behind rules meant to "protect" newbies

How can you be so sure when the rules are so incredibly vague?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#104 - 2012-08-28 03:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Pipa Porto wrote:

Ok, perfect. Now everybody just needs to make a 4 day old alt to haul their PLEX around, because they're protected newbies, right?


And he's off!

That's the Ruby posting we all love. Pick the most unlikely scenario and tout it like it's the most common practice in the game. Only total idiots put PLEX in a ship and we see what happens to total idiots in this game. They get blown up, they get game banned or like you, they get forum banned.

Find me a four day old character with a hold full of PLEX and I'll believe everything you say. Forever!

Edit: Extra love to you if they are in a noob system or running the arc while carrying them.

Mr Epeen Cool
Erenial
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-08-28 03:23:51 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Why would you want to pick on new players anyway? Sad

because of monetary reasons. if they don't pay to use the system, i bump them. i mean shoot them.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#106 - 2012-08-28 03:33:05 UTC
[quote=Mr Epeen] or like you, they get forum banned.

[quote]

Isnt ban evasion bad?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#107 - 2012-08-28 03:37:12 UTC
Erenial wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Why would you want to pick on new players anyway? Sad

because of monetary reasons. if they don't pay to use the system, i bump them. i mean shoot them.


many reasons
Youre bored
u mad
Its the EVE version of "pay it forwqard"
It was done to you...


I could go on.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#108 - 2012-08-28 03:40:28 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Pick the most unlikely scenario and tout it like it's the most common practice in the game.
How is something that is already happening en masse “most unlikely”?

Quote:
Only total idiots put PLEX in a ship and we see what happens to total idiots in this game.
That will change if it becomes a bannable offence to attack certain players who do it. Oh, and it's not really nice to call new player idiots just because they aren't familiar with the game yet…

…in fact, it's that very unfamiliarity that means they need the crystal-clear protection that you don't want to give them.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#109 - 2012-08-28 03:48:04 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
or like you, they get forum banned.



Isnt ban evasion bad?


One would think so vOv.

But as we know, EVE is a little different from other games.

Mr Epeen Cool
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-08-28 03:54:53 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Andski wrote:
pretty sure the rules don't allow older players to hide behind rules meant to "protect" newbies

How can you be so sure when the rules are so incredibly vague?


they're vague?

if you drop a can labeled "FREE STUFF" in a starter system, career agent system or newbie epic arc system, with the simple intent of killing days-old players who are oblivious to the mechanics, you're breaking the rules

suicide ganking a days-old character in a badger with billions in cargo isn't breaking the rules because it's not intended to allow dudes to hide behind the letter of the law for immunity

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#111 - 2012-08-28 04:01:00 UTC
Andski wrote:
suicide ganking a days-old character in a badger with billions in cargo isn't breaking the rules because it's not intended to allow dudes to hide behind the letter of the law for immunity
…unfortunately, that's not what the rules state.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#112 - 2012-08-28 04:01:47 UTC
This topic always seems to derail from my original intent: arbitrary rule enforcement of rules not in existence regarding all aspects of the SOE Epic Arc. If rookies are protected during the entirety of the chain, then have it stated instead of enforcing it without warning people.

I'm resigned that the definition of rookie will not be defined and that it will be a best judgement kind of deal. Not that it matters since the only rookies I may engage are either mining in random non-rookie systems or involved in my wars.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2012-08-28 04:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Andski wrote:
they're vague?

if you drop a can labeled "FREE STUFF" in a starter system, career agent system or newbie epic arc system, with the simple intent of killing days-old players who are oblivious to the mechanics, you're breaking the rules

Yeah, thanks for pointing out a rule that ISN'T vague. However that isn't what we're talking about here.
Why isn't it vague? It clearly states what you're not allowed to do (can flip) and where you're not allowed to do it (a specific list of systems).

The current trend goes beyond that. All that we're saying is that the above is what needs to be done. The last thing we want is people playing this game on eggshells because they're not sure what's okay and what's not. The rules need to be clear and precise.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#114 - 2012-08-28 04:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Tippia wrote:
Andski wrote:
suicide ganking a days-old character in a badger with billions in cargo isn't breaking the rules because it's not intended to allow dudes to hide behind the letter of the law for immunity
…unfortunately, that's not what the rules state.


wait what? they changed it so that its not just in the starter systems?
thats even more stupid, reminds me of games with noob shields, then when the noob shield goes away they get ripped apart by the real game

Andski wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Andski wrote:
pretty sure the rules don't allow older players to hide behind rules meant to "protect" newbies

How can you be so sure when the rules are so incredibly vague?


they're vague?

if you drop a can labeled "FREE STUFF" in a starter system, career agent system or newbie epic arc system, with the simple intent of killing days-old players who are oblivious to the mechanics, you're breaking the rules

suicide ganking a days-old character in a badger with billions in cargo isn't breaking the rules because it's not intended to allow dudes to hide behind the letter of the law for immunity



wtf... Goons sticking up for the rules? Now Ive seen everything

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2012-08-28 04:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
wait what? they changed it so that its not just in the starter systems?
Yes.
The latest word from the GMs is that newbies are not to be messed with.

Exactly what “messing with” them entails is not specified.
Exactly who counts as a “newbie” is not specified.
…and while it definitely holds true for the staring (and career) systems, it's not limited to those and the extent of that non-limit is (drum roll) not specified.

The last time someone asked, one of the SOE-arc systems were added to the official list of no-no systems, but it was also made clear that the list was not (and would not be) exhaustive. Instead, common sense should be the guide, but since no details will ever be forthcoming, the commonality and commonness of that sense is pretty much nil.

Thus was born the idea of actually specifying two of those factors to create a newbie-protection policy, and by request from the GMs, it was suggested in such a way that it would require zero development to implement.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#116 - 2012-08-28 04:52:46 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


wtf... Goons sticking up for the rules? Now Ive seen everything


If there is one thing I will give the little bees credit for, it's an intimate knowledge of the rules. You can't game the system unless you know it perfectly.

So (as much as this pains me to say ), when a high level Goon talks rules, I listen. I've learned a lot of neat little tricks over the years by adhering to this simple rule.

Mr Epeen Cool
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#117 - 2012-08-28 04:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Tippia wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
wait what? they changed it so that its not just in the starter systems?
Yes.
The latest word from the GMs is that newbies are not to be messed with.

Exactly what “messing with” them entails is not specified.
Exactly who counts as a “newbie” is not specified.
…and while it definitely holds true for the staring (and career) systems, it's not limited to those and the extent of that non-limit is (drum roll) not specified.




Wow thats exceedingly stupid...
Then again it's pretty par for the course for them to NOT define the rules in this game
I think they think it makes them harder to break (and it obviously doesnt)

Mr Epeen wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


wtf... Goons sticking up for the rules? Now Ive seen everything


If there is one thing I will give the little bees credit for, it's an intimate knowledge of the rules. You can't game the system unless you know it perfectly.

So (as much as this pains me to say ), when a high level Goon talks rules, I listen. I've learned a lot of neat little tricks over the years by adhering to this simple rule.

Mr Epeen Cool


Yah doesnt get higher than martini
er andski

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-08-28 06:17:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Andski wrote:
suicide ganking a days-old character in a badger with billions in cargo isn't breaking the rules because it's not intended to allow dudes to hide behind the letter of the law for immunity
…unfortunately, that's not what the rules state.


The spirit of the rule is for players not to take advantage of newbies and just collect killmails and tears from them solely because they are unfamiliar with the game's aggression mechanics. If the rule is more clear-cut than "don't **** with newbies" you'll just see everyone doing exactly what the rule is meant to discourage but gaming the system to say "well we didn't break the rules right?" A system designated as a "rookie system" is not a safe haven for carebears in pimped T3s. By the same token, they're not giving anybody a green light to hide behind the rules by using "rookie" alts.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#119 - 2012-08-28 06:24:46 UTC
Andski wrote:
If the rule is more clear-cut than "don't **** with newbies" you'll just see everyone doing exactly what the rule is meant to discourage but gaming the system to say "well we didn't break the rules right?"
It can be far more clear-cut than that and still offer the same protection… at least for the newbies. Making it more clear-cut just causes it to offer less protection for older players, and the more people yell about how it must stay the same, the more I believe that this is the reason for their doing so.

Quote:
A system designated as a "rookie system" is not a safe haven for carebears in pimped T3s.
And as luck would have it, it won't be because there will be nothing in such a system for a pimped T3 to do. The system will just be a glorified station with the most horrible undock ramp you could ever imagine and would offer no better (in fact, quite a lot worse) safe haven than any of the myriad of stations available in highsec.

Quote:
By the same token, they're not giving anybody a green light to hide behind the rules by using "rookie" alts.
Actually, that's exactly what they're doing.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-08-28 06:37:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Actually, that's exactly what they're doing.


Pretty sure that if I create a new account, roll an alt, train it into a T1 hauler, fill the hauler up with billions in loot and park it off the Kisogo station, the GMs will laugh at me if I petition whoever comes upon it for "griefing."

But hey let's just keep tilting at nonexistent umbrella protection policies that vaguely look like windmills~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar