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The reality - miners make 60+m isk per hour of gameplay
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ashley Eoner
#21 - 2012-08-26 18:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I was doing some basic timing using a stopwatch, and discovered that I spent about 10 minutes per hour of mining, actively doing something in the game. This would be stuff like locking an asteroid, moving cargo, warping, etc.

The other 50 mins was spent semi-afk doing homework on a second monitor.

I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.

So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.

Pretty neat, eh? Can mission runners boast the same thing?
WEll using your math I make at least 200m an hour "running" level 4 missions. clicking accept flying out and setting out my drones then go afk.

I also make over 10 billion isk an hour actively running the market.

Planetary interaction makes me about 300m an hour.

Plexing makes me 5 billion an hour.
Theo Ramone
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#22 - 2012-08-27 01:05:57 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I was doing some basic timing using a stopwatch, and discovered that I spent about 10 minutes per hour of mining, actively doing something in the game. This would be stuff like locking an asteroid, moving cargo, warping, etc.

The other 50 mins was spent semi-afk doing homework on a second monitor.

I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.

So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.

Pretty neat, eh? Can mission runners boast the same thing?


You.....are an idiot.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-08-27 03:52:08 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:


I also make over 10 billion isk an hour actively running the market.

Planetary interaction makes me about 300m an hour.

Plexing makes me 5 billion an hour.


I think that's a valid comparison, at least as market trading is concerned (haven't done PI or plexing). Back when I was trading last year, I earnt around 50m profit per day. Spent maybe 10 mins checking orders. So I made 300m per hr. I don't know how you make 10b per hr but since we're discussing trading, anything is possible so congrats. :)
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-08-27 06:23:47 UTC
I'd like to hire you for this job, see every hour you have to push a button 5 times, and it takes you 2 seconds to push every time. Based on your math I can pay you $1000/hr for your "work".

Would you work for that kind of money?

(Do the math, I'd actually be breaking the law to pay you that much per hour.)
McDeth Macaroth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-08-27 08:42:37 UTC
Wait, can you explain it a bit better for me. You make 10m an hour mining, but when you 'active mine' you make 60m...

What's the difference between the two, and what set up you use?

I make 10m an hour with a Mack getting boosts..
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-08-27 12:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaivar Lancer
McDeth Macaroth wrote:
Wait, can you explain it a bit better for me. You make 10m an hour mining, but when you 'active mine' you make 60m...

What's the difference between the two, and what set up you use?

I make 10m an hour with a Mack getting boosts..


Try to re-read my original post. You still make 10m per hour from mining. However, to make that 10m, you only need to actively play the game for around 10 minutes per hour. The other 50 minutes can be spent semi-AFK.

Multiply the 'active' time by six so you can convert 10 minutes into one hour. For every hour you spend "actively mining" in the game (clicking the mouse, warping, moving cargo etc), you earn 60m. Of course, you'll need to spend 300 minutes semi-AFK to access this money (6 * 50 minutes = 300 minutes).

But since semi-AFK = not playing the game, technically it should not be considered in calculating isk/hour.

In RL, this is why most workers do not consider travel time in calculating their hourly wage. Since you're not at work, traveling is usually not considered work. And likewise, when you are semi-AFK, i.e. not playing the game, the time you spend semi-AFK shouldn't be considered when calculating your isk/hour.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-08-27 13:04:27 UTC
60M ISK/hr is possible when mining (especially with the new Macks), but I highly doubt you'd be able to maintain that level of output. Theoretical yield is one thing; actual yield is another. And as I've said many times, "yield" includes actually getting your minerals to market or the manufacturing slot. In hisec, I can reliably pull in 30-40M ISK/hr when on a concentrated mining op -- but that's doing some serious ATK playing: managing my strips to make sure they're not wasting cycles on almost-popped roids, using mining drones, and making sure that my refining/transport logistics are in place in the system.

The problem with minerals is bulk. Consider: trit is great as a profit-making mineral...if you can move enough of it to market to make it worthwhile. An industrial won't do it. You really need a freighter to move minerals around in enough bulk to make it pay off, especially if you're more than a few hops from a trade hub. You can focus on the lower-volume, higher-value minerals like Pyerite, Mexallon, and Nocxium, but it's hard to mine enough of that stuff in hisec to make good ISK/hr -- that's why so many hisec miners focus on Veld and Scord (and maybe Plagioclase now that Pyerite is so high). Almost always (unless you're manufacturing), tritanium is the mineral you want to sell...but you need a lot of it.

In lowsec, the problem is more pronounced. There's plenty of great ABCM roids, but the ore is hard to move around. Logistics in low and null are a nightmare.

If you're patient (and can afford to be patient), a good way to improve returns on your mining ops is to sell your minerals via sell orders rather than just dumping them on the highest buy order. An extra .05 ISK per unit of trit may not sound like much, but over time and in tens of millions of units, it adds up. Nullsec manufacturers hate having to shlep from station to station buying trit -- many will pay a premium for trit in order to buy it all in one place, and the closer to their territory the better.
Infinite Force
#28 - 2012-08-27 19:48:12 UTC
Please, please, please ---- update your math!

I've BOLDED and UNDERLINED the parts for you that matter in correcting your math.

Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.

So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.

Now, let's go to Math 101 and learn about unit cancelling.

(10m isk / hour) * (1 hour / 60 minutes)

The hour units cancel out, leaving you with isk / minute.

10,000,000 isk / 60 minutes == 166,666.667 isk / minute.


Your next statement, therefore, was never true.

Kaivar Lancer wrote:
... So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.


As Idris Helion pointed out, If you want to make 60M / hour, you must mine higher end roids and only if you're actively working the field.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#29 - 2012-08-27 20:24:13 UTC
I don't understand why all the hate. Do players here in Science & Industry never calculate the amount of time they need for a particular task?


Just think for a second. If OP had 6 accounts then he would be making 60 mill/h. 10 min of active managing for every account.


Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#30 - 2012-08-27 20:45:23 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
McDeth Macaroth wrote:
Wait, can you explain it a bit better for me. You make 10m an hour mining, but when you 'active mine' you make 60m...

What's the difference between the two, and what set up you use?

I make 10m an hour with a Mack getting boosts..


Try to re-read my original post. You still make 10m per hour from mining. However, to make that 10m, you only need to actively play the game for around 10 minutes per hour. The other 50 minutes can be spent semi-AFK.

Multiply the 'active' time by six so you can convert 10 minutes into one hour. For every hour you spend "actively mining" in the game (clicking the mouse, warping, moving cargo etc), you earn 60m. Of course, you'll need to spend 300 minutes semi-AFK to access this money (6 * 50 minutes = 300 minutes).

But since semi-AFK = not playing the game, technically it should not be considered in calculating isk/hour.

In RL, this is why most workers do not consider travel time in calculating their hourly wage. Since you're not at work, traveling is usually not considered work. And likewise, when you are semi-AFK, i.e. not playing the game, the time you spend semi-AFK shouldn't be considered when calculating your isk/hour.

So based on your logic. If I was running freight say 25-30 jumps for 10 mil. Since travel time does not count I actually make that 10 mil in 30-60 seconds actually accepting contracts and loading cargo. S0 I guess I make 600 mil an hour hauling freight.

get where you are coming from but it just does not work that way. you have to count the down time in your isk/hr. you are only making 10 mil an hour, you just only have to spend 10 minutes of that hour actually working. That is what makes it semi-afk income.

Also anyone with half a brain does consider travel time and fuel when determining if a job is worth the wages or not. You could get a job for $20/hr but you only work 4 hours at a time, If it takes you 2 hours driving each way to get to and from work. you are spending 8 hours to make $80, even though you are getting paid $20/hr. And that does not account for the gas needed for that traveling.

Now compare to a 8 hour/day job for $12/hr that is only a 5 minute drive. At the end of the day you have far more in your pocket working at the lower wage.

semi afk income is generally low isk/hr, but is done while at work, or otherwise occupied preventing you from participating in higher isk/hr activities. you are only making 10 mil/hr but the alternative is not playing at all which makes 0 isk/hr.
Ginger Barbarella
#31 - 2012-08-27 21:19:13 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
I don't understand why all the hate. Do players here in Science & Industry never calculate the amount of time they need for a particular task?


Just think for a second. If OP had 6 accounts then he would be making 60 mill/h. 10 min of active managing for every account.




I think there are two kinds of Industrialists here: the type that pulls out a slide rule and has Spreadsheets trained to L5 that dry humps the phrase "Opportunity Costs" at every opportunity, counting pennies, and revels in .01 isk battles in the market.

Then there's the kind that understands it's a game, sells stuff FOR PROFIT and uses a gradually rising wallet balance overall to determine success, and plays for fun, and not tracking every single minute spent logged in. I never sell below MY COSTS (I have no idea what YOUR costs are, and I don't care), always take advantage of buying off market if I can readily resell for bigger isk, and use Invention to create T2 stuffs to sell on market or use myself (no, my few T2 BPOs haven't been used in over a year).

Love to hear where other posters lie in either of these two camps, but then this is the Intarwebs. Truth is secondary to epeen here. Twisted Oh, and if you have problems with reading comprehension, don't bother responding.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-08-28 00:36:29 UTC
Woeaaahhh,

I earn 1 biltriljon fun for every hour I play in eve................... don't mine.............. lol
Dilma Rousseff
Partido dos Trabalhadores
#33 - 2012-08-28 00:46:16 UTC
Why to pay this much attention to someone that is clearly trolling ?
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-08-28 03:56:47 UTC
Did some further analysis outside of mining. I looked at T1 manufacturing and from one slot alone, I could make 400m profit per month. I reckon that would take perhaps 10 mins to setup for the whole month?

400m * 6 = 2.4 b isk per hour

Time to retire my retriever.
stoicfaux
#35 - 2012-08-28 04:23:30 UTC
Are people really this confused about measuring
* isk per wall clock hour
versus
* isk per hour spent actively paying attention to the game?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Dan Carter Murray
#36 - 2012-08-28 04:37:55 UTC
Totally Trustworthy wrote:
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I was doing some basic timing using a stopwatch, and discovered that I spent about 10 minutes per hour of mining, actively doing something in the game. This would be stuff like locking an asteroid, moving cargo, warping, etc.

The other 50 mins was spent semi-afk doing homework on a second monitor.

I mine around 10m isk per hour in my Retriever. So for every active minute I spent in-game, I earnt 1m isk. So for every 60 minutes of "active" mining, I make 60m isk.

So I can say that I make 60m isk per hour from mining.

Pretty neat, eh? Can mission runners boast the same thing?

You're a ******* moron. The strips cycle at the same speed whether you're at the keyboard or not. You don't magically increase your mining if you become "active". You earn 10mil per hour, period. Idiot.


"what you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Lutin Ballista
Ballista Investment Corp
#37 - 2012-08-28 07:24:21 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
You want to talk reality? OK, how's this? I bill $150 US$ per hour to work on stuff for my clients on the side. I do that while AFK mining. What do I make in one hour? $150/$35 per GTC = 4 GTC (rounded down) = 8 PLEX, per HOUR.

That's reality. Now, go back to your example, please.


Is that all? Try harder.
ashley Eoner
#38 - 2012-08-28 18:53:58 UTC
I just realized I spend a lot of time doing nothing at work.. I MAKE MORE THEN MINIMUM WAGE BY A HUUUUUGE AMOUNT NOW!!!.. WOOO HOOO
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#39 - 2012-08-28 21:27:42 UTC
Whoever said they made more in the market I must agree....

mining and mission running is like working a job

time = isk

If you decide to start trading, you continue to make your isk work for you overnight. Sure, you spend some time researching items and updating orders, but you will find some regular items and the market research time drops off.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Marcus McTavish
Volcel Police
#40 - 2012-08-28 22:04:10 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Nyreanya wrote:
Using the OP's logic, I can say I make about 400 mil/hour doing science. He's obviously not studying math.


When you go to work, do you add travel time when calculating your $/hr from your job? No? Why is that?

The same logic applies for calculating isk/hr when mining. For 10 mins of "work" (mouse-clicking etc), I earn 10m isk. The other 50 minutes, I don't do anything mining-related.

That's like working 10 minutes, going home for 50 minutes to jack off, then coming back to work for another 10 minutes. Rinse and repeat.

This is common sense. But then again, this is EVE, the home of aspies.


Yea, its like working 10 minutes, then ya'know BEING at work for another 50.

You are mining for 10 mins, but you are also..... MINING THE OTHER 50 Minutes!!!! You might not be paying attention, but your character is still working.

That's like saying if you spend 5 minutes queuing downloads which take 55 minutes to download, that you can download the file in 5 minutes.

Your logic is stating that since you are only active for 1/6th the time, that you receive the benefits of all the time.

You need to enroll yourself in some general math.

I can apply your logic to trading, if i spend an hour setting up orders each week, and make 500 million isk per week, does that mean i make 500 million isk per hour. HELL NO!

You know why, because not everything sells instantly, it takes time when i might NOT BE ACTIVE, JUST AS YOUR MINING DOES.

You logic and bullheaded ignorance to math are quite skewed. Please take your calculations to your math teacher so they too can show the flaws.

Time = isk
TOTAL Time = ISK
Total Time = Active and inactive time.

L2Maffs