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Missile range

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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-14 00:09:39 UTC
Can we just get missiles to show their range.

Not math to figure out their range.

Not removing a random percentage to factor ramp up speed.

I wanna know my EXACT range, to include ramp up.

I can work around the flight patern of the target,

But seriously....Let me see my range the same way turret pilots can.

Tired of having to add numbers and divide a random percentage every time I wanna know my range.

Let me just click info and know my range.
Goose99
#2 - 2011-10-14 00:43:42 UTC
Once they implement this, people like you will start complaining that rats move. Use EFT.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-14 01:04:21 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Once they implement this, people like you will start complaining that rats move. Use EFT.


I use eft, but it doesn't factor ramp up time for the missiles.

So the range you get from multiplying your flight time and velocity isn't their actual range.

My torps on my golem say they go 64km, but once you facor ramp up time, they actually go closer to 56km.

That's why i'd rather see their ACTUAL range, and not numbers. With the range, factor their ramp up speed so I know the actual range and not their "if they were going full speed from the time of launch" distance.

Like I said with my initial statement, I already know that factoring target flight isn't something that can be done. If they're at 50km going 500m/s, i know that i'm bound to not have enough range on the missiles, but i'd still like to know how far away i can hit a stationary target without guessing.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-14 01:26:49 UTC
Multiplication isn't hard. Neither is figuring out ramp up time. Shave a few kilometers off the final value, and it's close enough. And since there is no situation in which you should be shooting at max range anyway, it's a non-issue. Unless you're shooting a starbase, targets tend to move, and if you're at the max range - ramp up time, theres a pretty good chance your target is going to move a little further away from you, and the shot will be wasted.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-10-14 02:23:43 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Multiplication isn't hard. Neither is figuring out ramp up time. Shave a few kilometers off the final value, and it's close enough. And since there is no situation in which you should be shooting at max range anyway, it's a non-issue. Unless you're shooting a starbase, targets tend to move, and if you're at the max range - ramp up time, theres a pretty good chance your target is going to move a little further away from you, and the shot will be wasted.



Actually, torps on my golem a lot of times require me to shoot at max range. Also, if i'm in my stealth bomber a lot of times I'll want to be at max range.

Point still is, why can't they just display their ACTUAL max range and "max range" the same way they show minimal, maximum, and optimal range on turrets.

Turrets have no ramp up time, don't have to chase the target, and are instant damage... The least they can do is list missile actual range.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-14 02:46:21 UTC
I'll quote this from what i put on the thousand needles thread...

me wrote:


I would like torps to show my max range factoring in ramp up time.

I know, I know.

"do the math"
"knock off a few km for ramp up"

Seriously, I shouldn't have to.

You don't have to make a hypothesis based on subtracting your minimum from maximum and then knocking off a few random km in order to get your optimal turret range.

It says it right there on your d@mn info and that's the actual range you'll get.

Why can't we have that with torps and other missiles?
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#7 - 2011-10-14 03:45:22 UTC
well... the simple answer is that due to the delayed nature of applied damage telling you a missiles' "max range" is still useless.

the target is generally moving, so even if you shot at it within your 'max range' the missile still may not hit if the target was moving away. in which case someone will come back here and complain some more about how the max range isn't accurate.

just get closer and shoot.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-14 03:53:44 UTC
Elindreal wrote:
well... the simple answer is that due to the delayed nature of applied damage telling you a missiles' "max range" is still useless.

the target is generally moving, so even if you shot at it within your 'max range' the missile still may not hit if the target was moving away. in which case someone will come back here and complain some more about how the max range isn't accurate.

just get closer and shoot.


I however am fully aware of a target's flight speed and distance on my missiles and that it is something that can't be factored.

However, the fact that ramp up time isn't factored in is really annoying.

Doing the math of multiplying flight time by velocity, i get 64km and that is what eft displays. However, even shooting at a stationary target, i get maybe 56km.

That part is really annoying. I know to anticipate flight speed and distance of ships, but when i can't hit a stationary target with what is displayed as my range, it gets old really quick. So basically, i'm losing like 10 km due to ramp up time and that's on a stationary.

Either tell me my range is 56km, or cut out ramp up factors and make my range 64km. Either way I don't care, I just wanna know the range at which i can hit a stationary target.
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-14 07:26:21 UTC
Your Range will be modified by the speed of your Target. So it is impossible to give you a precise number.

EFT will give you an approximation taht is enough in most of the case.

By the way it would be interestening to have EFT directly in the game.

I cannot understand why I must have a third party program to create my Loadouts.

The Eve Interface is old. Lot of things should change.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-10-14 13:14:49 UTC
Beckett Firesnake wrote:
Your Range will be modified by the speed of your Target. So it is impossible to give you a precise number.

EFT will give you an approximation taht is enough in most of the case.

By the way it would be interestening to have EFT directly in the game.

I cannot understand why I must have a third party program to create my Loadouts.

The Eve Interface is old. Lot of things should change.


agreed with the eft part.

But back on topic. Like I said, eft displays the very same range I get from doing my math.

I know factoring the flight of the target is impossible to determine, however, It's a lot harder for me to deterimine when I also have to work around ramp up time.

So basically, i'm losing 10km for ramp up time, putting me at 56km, then i have to try and factor the flight of the target which may put me around 54km or 50km.

Either way, this like I said in the last post, is not a matter of how you hit a moving target.

I can't hit a STATIONARY target at what is factored and displayed on eft as my max range.

This is seriously annoying.

Like I've said, turrets get to see their minimal, maximum, and optimal range without doing any math, without having to factor target flight speed, and without having to wait for the damage to be applied.

The least we can get with missiles is for them to display their ACTUAL range on a stationary target.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-14 13:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Dont' know how it happened, but DP
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-10-14 16:52:31 UTC
Look infos on real missiles, they all display a maximum range...

Simple, we need that info.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-14 20:17:47 UTC
Archetype 66 wrote:
Look infos on real missiles, they all display a maximum range...

Simple, we need that info.



Yup, not so much need the info, nor do I need the math done for me.

But i would like to know the exact range i can hit a stationary target by multiplying flight time by velocity.

No more of this subtracting a random number that no one really knows crap.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-15 01:48:24 UTC
To all the people bitching about this, you sound like my highschool maths teacher.

"You need to learn this, you won't spend your whole life with a calculator in your pocket!"

Oh wait

The truth is that it would be trivial to make the UI do a quick check on your skills and any relevant effects, and calculate the range of your missiles, and just stick it in the info on the launcher, in exactly the same manner that turrets do.

This is a simple thing that should have been done years ago.

Asking people to calculate it in their head, on paper or with out of game tools is just douchebaggery.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2011-10-15 02:07:02 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
The truth is that it would be trivial to make the UI do a quick check on your skills and any relevant effects, and calculate the range of your missiles, and just stick it in the info on the launcher, in exactly the same manner that turrets do.
…the difference being that the turrets actually show the range, whereas missiles do not really have that value.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-10-15 02:12:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
The truth is that it would be trivial to make the UI do a quick check on your skills and any relevant effects, and calculate the range of your missiles, and just stick it in the info on the launcher, in exactly the same manner that turrets do.
…the difference being that the turrets actually show the range, whereas missiles do not really have that value.

Thats a terrible argument and you know it. The range of the turret is modified by skills and charge types.

You could easily argue that since these days you can only put torps and defenders in a torpedo launcher, torpedo launchers have an effective base range as well.

Why not just make it a thing, and save everyone some headaches?

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2011-10-15 02:15:13 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Thats a terrible argument and you know it. The range of the turret is modified by skills and charge types.
As is the maximum flight distance of missiles. This doesn't change the fact that turrets interact with range in a vastly different manner than missiles do. In fact, turrets have a range — missiles do not.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#18 - 2011-10-15 05:23:23 UTC
Could do an 'estimate' distance.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-15 05:48:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Thats a terrible argument and you know it. The range of the turret is modified by skills and charge types.
As is the maximum flight distance of missiles. This doesn't change the fact that turrets interact with range in a vastly different manner than missiles do. In fact, turrets have a range — missiles do not.


You mean how the effective range of a missile is shorter is the person is moving, in a totally dissimilar way to how the damage of a turret gets lower if the person is moving?

Jesus christ man, how pedantic do you want to get.

Missiles DO have a range. A missiles maximum flight range is (flight speed x flight skills) x (flight time x flight time skills).

I guess its not a range like guns have a range, but then again in real life bullets take time to hit and dont blink out of existence when they go past a certain distance, so your pedantry makes you look like a moron.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Herring
Infinatech
#20 - 2011-10-15 13:50:32 UTC
Personally I think they need to remove the automatic range calculations on turrets; it makes more sense to have to calculate range manually. And it'd go along with the latest trend of functionaltiy reduction.

Seriously though, if they did introduce range calc for missile systems they'd have to address the range bugs they have with rigs, and they won't do that.

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