EVE General Discussion

Bare with me on this one... WAIT WAIT... edit: apparenlty I am CRYING HERE OVER MY AF... yep... OMG, OH woes to me, *he beats his chest, he took the body of his fallen AF and drags it around the camp fire... sobbing and wailing... CURSES to the GODS!!!... THE RAGE OF AV is likened to that of Achilles!!!!.... *cough cough*.... THE MECHANICS... THE ISKIES... THE AF... OH THE KM... *FIST TOWARDS HEAVEN*... I WILL HAVE MY VENGENCE!!!... YAAAAARRRRRRR!!!...

ok anyway... som people posting in response apparently though I was crying... whaaaa... - nope, sorry your just faily stupid... here are some marbles to put up your nose if you read this as "crying".

I was just re-reading the blog on Ship Rebalancing and the section on "fast attack ships" being like cavalry, and thought - fail, web/scram.... fail, doesn't work in eve, you can't make a fast flank attack, there is no flank and there is no fast - just close, web, blob... or snipe/kite... the cavarly in EVE meets fly paper ever time.

So... what is the main thing that makes EVE's combat non-fluid... well it's the simple "tackle" web/jammer combo... it dictates all combat, regardless... if you are unable to deal with the opponents fit, and you can't run, you simply give up and die. This is why people say most of EVE's combat is pre-determined at the fit level... much like cards, fits trump fits outright, and very little skill can be put to use to deal with it... you might be able to do a few tricks, but mostly it's did you fit to deal with X if yes then WIN, if no then FAIL (KM)... and why fitting is both the art and bain of EVE's mechanics.

This is something I have wondered about for a long time...

Web:
It slows you down by 60% (last I looked or something like that, and they stack) and then it has a range which gets longer with skill.
Jammers:
Locks you from warping, and scram turns off your MWD if you mount one, and range is increased with skill.

ok, seems pretty straight forward - too straight forward in my imho for a game mechanic that is so dominate in PvP of any sort.

What CCP should have done and what they could do is something like this - and it would not unbalance the game, but it would sure make it more intense, more interesting and more important to use skill (real skill) and tactics...

New Web:
Slow Target 10% per level of skill with a base start of 10% - L1 20%, L5 60%
Range: keep it as is
Change to miss per cycle: inverse of above L1 60%, L5 10%

Skills that counter webbing:
Evasive Manuvering +5% per level to evade web, L1 -5% to above for opponent, L5 -25% to opponent
*other skills could apply to make for an interesting net effect, but this is just off the top of my head for the moment.

Jammer, would work in a similar way, with a chance to "miss effecting" for a cycle.

What this would do is allow more fluid movement in battles, it wouldn't give anyone a total lockdown, and players would skill into a new profession of sorts, "tackling would become an art, not a hit F1-win situation"... it would mean that there is more risk to lose a target if your not on the ball, and it would add to specialization if it was taken to a higher level... say something like:

max fit one of each on a ship, webs and scrams don't stack, and in fact cancel out, if two people hit the same target they blow out each others effects (not lock) just the effects... like waves with interference ripples... that would make this whole part of tackling a fire art, that it should be... and the joy of a real skilled KM a trophy.

This would also give unarmed ships or inferior ships (and skilled players) some means to get away... not just be locked down and fired up... some of the best new skills would then be NAV, where you would first learn (as in nature and the military) the fine are of EVASION... then later to kill... and run away to fight another day would be viable, not just a "sigh... LOL right this is EVE, your dead when you undocked in that fit predictible)

This is just a thought so don't get all flames and rage on me if your a "I want to have easy noob kills with a web/scam pop-gun ship"

Another option might simply be to make them like weapons... hit or miss (which is what they sort of are anyway) and you hit a ship it does it for a period of time, then drops, and put the cycle time longer, allow for multiple hits, but then make them not a field but a "knock-out" of that feature - speed or warp for x seconds.

Perhaps something like this - you send in your fast attack tackle, it zoomes in (survives the hit and run) and it fires off a round of jammer/web shots... some miss, some hit... the skills for hitting and dodging it kick in and you see if the target is either slowed or warp offlined, and then things progress, the idea is there is no 100% lock down and it's not perpetual, it's more dynamic, and therefore more dramatic as well - more fun.

Forever gone would be that "get a point on it!!.. got it... ok relaxe it's dead now... primary... It would be KEEP that point, get it, get it... noooo!!... crap. or KEEP IT... YES!!! (boom) to the very end of the fight... and the one that got away could be a reality then.

So basically while flying this ship: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16806504 You got scrammed by this ship: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16808268 And died and now CCP needs to nerf webs cause getting your AF killed by a pair of destroyers isn't any fun.

Have you ever seen/performed solo pvp successfully?
Getting pointed and webbed isn't the end of a fight.

Go watch Garmon or Kil2 and you should understand this.
And don't try to fix what isn't broken. :)

You can't go very far in nerfing tackle. Since most combat takes place near gates, tackle is essential for anyone getting a fight.

LAWL. +1

Why anyone would ever active tank a frigate is beyond me. Its basically putting a neon "alpha me!" sign on your forehead.

Meh, whatever it was just a thought to make combat more interesting... I have had fun with PvP on SISI but unlike you all "who play EVE right, and others playe it "wrong"... apparently any change to the "tackle" mechanics is a no go with you folks... it might mean one would have to do more that close. lock, point, primary, secondary, repeat... totally dull, totally boring... totally predictable... but if you like it... and people say mining is boring... least at the end of the day you have a pile of ISK, PVP you just have a pile of KMs with stupid names on them...lol... if it works for you, then by all means.

o7

You should stop crying about how the mechanics are unfair and learn how they work so that you can use them instead of getting owned by them.

They have been nerfed they use to slow you 90% now they start around 60%.

What's with the influx of WoW-Forums-esque whine threads