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A Crusader is always Neat and Tidy

Author
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#201 - 2012-08-26 05:35:31 UTC
You are wrong. It is not necessary for Matari (or anyone else, for that matter) to be enslaved in order to be saved. It is simply necessary for them to accept God's will and live according to scripture. There doesn't need to be an Amarrian within five systems of them for that to happen.

There are plenty of Matari in the Ammatar systems who are neither Slaves or in any further need of slavery to be considered saved. My own people were once outside the grace of God and the vehicle of our salvation was not a battlefleet and forced servitude. So it was with the Ni-Kunni, Udorians and the Ealur. I cannot pretend to know why things went so badly with the Matari tribes compared to all the other races who have been set onto the path to salvation.

Furthermore it is simply not true that the majority of slaves within the Empire are on the ragged edge of rebellion, kept in line only by Vitoc and cranial implants. Such methods are extremely rare and slavery is considered a burden to both the Holders and the Slaves, as the former help purify the latter of the sin that caused the original fall of the other races. For the kind of conditions that you seem to imagine to be the norm, you really need to go looking into slaves held by the Blood Raiders, where there is no duty of religious conversion and no belief that slaves should be treated decently.
Mara Black
Dreamseeker Industries
#202 - 2012-08-26 08:18:38 UTC
I thought this was a conversation about neatness, but now it has turned into a slavery conversation.

Do the best holders have their slaves as neat and tidy as their other possessions? Is a dirty slave the sign of a poor holder?
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#203 - 2012-08-26 08:27:25 UTC
Mara Black wrote:
I thought this was a conversation about neatness, but now it has turned into a slavery conversation.

Do the best holders have their slaves as neat and tidy as their other possessions? Is a dirty slave the sign of a poor holder?


It is a conversation containing both Amarrians and Matari. It was bound to become a discussion of Slavery by page two. EVERY discussion involving a Matari and an Amarrian no doubt has a projected time to implosion in this manner.

As for Slaves, my Lord Holder preferred his slaves plain but neat. He didn't hold with a lot of decoration or individuality but he didn't want his Slaves dirty, neglected looking or poorly clad. When I kept Slaves amongst my ship crews I preferred them to be identifiable as individuals and so they wore uniforms identifying their names, divisions, ranks and time in service.
Mara Black
Dreamseeker Industries
#204 - 2012-08-26 08:32:24 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
As for Slaves, my Lord Holder preferred his slaves plain but neat. He didn't hold with a lot of decoration or individuality but he didn't want his Slaves dirty, neglected looking or poorly clad. When I kept Slaves amongst my ship crews I preferred them to be identifiable as individuals and so they wore uniforms identifying their names, divisions, ranks and time in service.


What names did they get? Could they choose their own, or did you provide them with ones?

I think proper naming also belongs to being neat. If I see what names some capsuleers choose for their ships.....
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#205 - 2012-08-26 08:32:39 UTC
Amaki Mai wrote:
When I kept Slaves amongst my ship crews I preferred them to be identifiable as individuals and so they wore uniforms identifying their names, divisions, ranks and time in service.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just tattoo a barcode on their face like the Caldari do?
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#206 - 2012-08-26 08:39:43 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property.
We have receipts.
More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders.
They weren't taken from you or anyone else.


This is a pretty ******** obvious is obvious comment. We're at war over the fact you believe they are your property, the entire Minmatar Amarr conflict is based around this.

Glad you know the basics, didnt take you long to work it out.


In my dealings with Minmatar terrorists in general and you in particular, I have found that it is often neccessary for me to state the obvious. Often several times.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#207 - 2012-08-26 08:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Mara Black wrote:
I thought this was a conversation about neatness, but now it has turned into a slavery conversation.

Do the best holders have their slaves as neat and tidy as their other possessions? Is a dirty slave the sign of a poor holder?

In general, a slave should be healthy, clean, and modest in appearance.

There are obvious exceptions. Someone who spends their time working in a mine or fixing machinery is going to get dirty. Even then, they should clean themselves up when able. If a Holder allows her slaves to act in a slovenly manner, it does reflect poorly on her, yes.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#208 - 2012-08-26 10:55:39 UTC
No Mister Thor,

Squire Mai clarified the point rather succinctly so I'll not add too much to it.

I do believe it is our sacred duty to Reclaim the cluster for God, not for the Empire and I do believe slavery can be properly used as a lifestyle correction to help those lost in sin to be freed from those sins and taught to live for God alone.

I do not believe that every Minmatar has to be enslaved in order to be saved, as you suggested I did.

So no, I didn't contradict myself. I attempted to use fewer words to give you an answer and it led to misunderstanding, as it often does.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#209 - 2012-08-26 11:53:55 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property.
We have receipts.
More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders.
They weren't taken from you or anyone else.


This is a pretty ******** obvious is obvious comment. We're at war over the fact you believe they are your property, the entire Minmatar Amarr conflict is based around this.

Glad you know the basics, didnt take you long to work it out.


In my dealings with Minmatar terrorists in general and you in particular, I have found that it is often neccessary for me to state the obvious. Often several times.


We have no prior dealings, dont try to justify your inability to communicate on a basic human level. Im finished talking to you.

.....

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#210 - 2012-08-26 11:57:40 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
No Mister Thor,

Squire Mai clarified the point rather succinctly so I'll not add too much to it.

I do believe it is our sacred duty to Reclaim the cluster for God, not for the Empire and I do believe slavery can be properly used as a lifestyle correction to help those lost in sin to be freed from those sins and taught to live for God alone.

I do not believe that every Minmatar has to be enslaved in order to be saved, as you suggested I did.

So no, I didn't contradict myself. I attempted to use fewer words to give you an answer and it led to misunderstanding, as it often does.


Well then once all the Matari are free, they will be able to make there own choice on the matter, to follow the Amarr faith or not.
However this choice as supplied to them right now in the best possible circumstance stands like this.

A; "So how about you become part of my faith young minmatar?"

M: "Nah im good cheers, im just enjoying life right now"

A: "Dear god get this man in chains, he needs saving, do not worry young Minmatar i shall save you."

that is not a choice, our discussion is over.

.....

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#211 - 2012-08-26 15:07:42 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property.
We have receipts.
More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders.
They weren't taken from you or anyone else.


This is a pretty ******** obvious is obvious comment. We're at war over the fact you believe they are your property, the entire Minmatar Amarr conflict is based around this.

Glad you know the basics, didnt take you long to work it out.


In my dealings with Minmatar terrorists in general and you in particular, I have found that it is often neccessary for me to state the obvious. Often several times.


We have no prior dealings, dont try to justify your inability to communicate on a basic human level. Im finished talking to you.


I was referring to our previous dealings in this thread. I'm a fast learner. You clearly are not.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#212 - 2012-08-26 15:08:47 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:


Well then once all the Matari are free, they will be able to make there own choice on the matter, to follow the Amarr faith or not.



Except that as has been pointed out time and time again, the Shakorites do not allow religious freedom.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#213 - 2012-08-26 15:27:08 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Well then once all the Matari are free, they will be able to make there own choice on the matter, to follow the Amarr faith or not.



Except that as has been pointed out time and time again, the Shakorites do not allow religious freedom.


Irony Roll

.....

Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#214 - 2012-08-26 17:41:36 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Well then once all the Matari are free, they will be able to make there own choice on the matter, to follow the Amarr faith or not.



Except that as has been pointed out time and time again, the Shakorites do not allow religious freedom.


Irony Roll


A use of a word other then for its intended meaning. Example, The 'Hot' Zone. When in fact the Hot zone is neither high combat or heated to any meaningful degree.

That would be Irony.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#215 - 2012-08-26 23:42:29 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Well then once all the Matari are free, they will be able to make there own choice on the matter, to follow the Amarr faith or not.



Except that as has been pointed out time and time again, the Shakorites do not allow religious freedom.


Irony Roll


A use of a word other then for its intended meaning. Example, The 'Hot' Zone. When in fact the Hot zone is neither high combat or heated to any meaningful degree.

That would be Irony.


http://theoatmeal.com/comics/irony

To get up to speed on the usage of the word irony/ironic etc etc.

Anyway, i found it IRONIC, that an amarrian who comes from, hmm lets say not the most welcoming culture towards other cultures, some would say xenophobic in attitude.
Would complain about the religious intollerence towards their religion, of the race who have suffered most at the hands of said religion, if irony was not the best word for this please tell me what was so i can broaden my written a spoken linguistic skill.

.....

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#216 - 2012-08-27 00:53:52 UTC
No, see, IRONY is when you have a race that claims to have suffered from an overbearing monotheistic conqueror that is, itself, massively xenophobic and intolerant of other religions.

An overbearing monotheistic race of conquerors should be expected to complain if you don't allow their faith, which they see as being the most important thing in the cluster, within your borders.
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#217 - 2012-08-27 01:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Amaki Mai wrote:
No, see, IRONY is when you have a race that claims to have suffered from an overbearing monotheistic conqueror that is, itself, massively xenophobic and intolerant of other religions.

An overbearing monotheistic race of conquerors should be expected to complain if you don't allow their faith, which they see as being the most important thing in the cluster, within your borders.


So your the Robin to Azdan's Batman? Glad he has a sidekick seemed like a lonely lad.

If a man murders your mother , do you thank him for it and become best friends?

So if a religion enslaves a race murdering billions destroying entire worlds, are we then expected to accept that religion with open arms on the very eve of our freedom?

No grow up and realize that every action the Amarr make or have made has an equal reaction, or in other words the current situation the Minmatar find our selves in is a direct, a bloody DIRECT consequence of everything we have endured at the hands of the Amarr.

.....

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#218 - 2012-08-27 02:15:51 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
So your the Robin to Azdan's Batman? Glad he has a sidekick seemed like a lonely lad.


Rob - what? It must be a cultural reference. I am hardly lonely but I appreciate the concern.

Horak Thor wrote:
So if a religion enslaves a race murdering billions destroying entire worlds, are we then expected to accept that religion with open arms on the very eve of our freedom?

No grow up and realize that every action the Amarr make or have made has an equal reaction, or in other words the current situation the Minmatar find our selves in is a direct, a bloody DIRECT consequence of everything we have endured at the hands of the Amarr.


The religion didn't enslave and murder anyone, those practicing it did so.

Also, the situation the Minmatar find themselves in is a direct result of their own choices and decisions. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll find a greater purpose to your life than hollow vengeance and blood lust.

Squire Mai, continuing conversation with Mister Thor is a massive waste of time, I'd recommend avoiding it. I am hereby withdrawing from this conversation.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#219 - 2012-08-27 03:27:38 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
So your the Robin to Azdan's Batman? Glad he has a sidekick seemed like a lonely lad.


Rob - what? It must be a cultural reference. I am hardly lonely but I appreciate the concern.

Horak Thor wrote:
So if a religion enslaves a race murdering billions destroying entire worlds, are we then expected to accept that religion with open arms on the very eve of our freedom?

No grow up and realize that every action the Amarr make or have made has an equal reaction, or in other words the current situation the Minmatar find our selves in is a direct, a bloody DIRECT consequence of everything we have endured at the hands of the Amarr.


The religion didn't enslave and murder anyone, those practicing it did so.

Also, the situation the Minmatar find themselves in is a direct result of their own choices and decisions. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll find a greater purpose to your life than hollow vengeance and blood lust.

Squire Mai, continuing conversation with Mister Thor is a massive waste of time, I'd recommend avoiding it. I am hereby withdrawing from this conversation.


Until you can accept responsibility for the actions of the religion you follow, because it was the religion that sanctioned the purification via slavery method enacted on my people. You will continue to live a lie.

Continue with your campaign of denial however, just realize your lies and misdirection are transparent.

.....

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#220 - 2012-08-27 03:42:45 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:

Rob - what? It must be a cultural reference. I am hardly lonely but I appreciate the concern.


The story of Batman is legendary among the minmatar..
He was a rich man. A Minmatar born upon an Amarrian world, but his family held high station.
Yet still he was Minmatar and alas one night his parents were felled by a dastardly Amarrian dog, when he was but a child.

He was from then on looked after by his eccentric Ka-Nid butler Jefferey, a trustworthy chap as the legend goes.
With no murderer found and a deep vengeance burning in his heart, he waited.

When of age and suitably muscular in frame, with an assortment of gadgetry and technological marvel bought out of his parents wealth, our hero set forth to right the wrongs inflicted upon matari stranded upon this unknown amarrian world. Wether it be beating back robbers, taking cats down from large tree's or helping old Matari ladies cross the road, for no act of valour was to trivial for this gallant hero, Our hero would be there, with his signature wooden bat in hand ready to fight for what he believed was right.

It was because of this wooden bat that he was known as Batman and forever shall be known, among the young and old of Matari heritage.

Robin his trusty Gallente sidekick was never far from his side, but that, young Azdan is a story for another time.

.....