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Rattle vs Navy Domi
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Mukirana
Lone Lion Corporation
#1 - 2012-08-25 21:30:06 UTC
Well my original idea was to use a sub-BS ship to run L4 missions, but after talking to some friends in game and asking here at the forum people told me that I'll never get as much DPS or kill faster than using a BS. (I don't Blitz mission I just kill everything Lol)

So I have already tried some ships:

**Raven: too low tank, I lost one at World Collides not my kind of ship

**Dominix: Very good ship, the only problem is that it is so slow, and that hybrids are the worst kind of weapon ( I will not mention the ASB Domi since I don't think it's viable in PvE - long reload time and estra cash for the charges)

**Navy Scorpion: Good ship, nice to fly but too overtanked ( even when you try to don't overtank it) and the DPS is a bit low.


Well most of my SP is at drones and missiles, especially heavy missiles and cruise missiles, so I was thinking about change from my Domi to a Rattlesnake or a Navy Domi. Which one should work better? I want something effective for my L4 missions. I wan't anything overtanked neither with a paper tank.

Any suggestion on a fit for those ships? I was looking at Battleclinic but most of the fits are so old and specially the rattle has like 2 or 3 fits (some are still passive).

So Navy Domi or Rattle? Not overtanked, not overpriced and not paper tank.

Thanks.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-25 21:40:35 UTC
It has been a long while since I ran a normal mission, but we were discussing these recently.

According to some in the conversation, the Navy Dominix can fit an absolutely bitchin passive shield tank. Add rails/drone links in the highs and mag stabs and drone damage mods in the lows. Sentry rigs. You will have to use some of the lows for the shield tank, but not all of them I dont think.

I dont know what kind of DPS you can get out of it with rails, but I know you can get a shield pvp fit with blasters that does near ~2000 dps. You dont need near that much for pve, but that should give you an idea. The Navy Domi rules all. Everyone should buy them.*

So yeah.

(*This is a statement of opinion by the author, and should not be viewed as a fact with any supporting evidence, or the opinion of this forum in general. It should be noted that the author is a member of Gallente Militia and occasionally sells Navy Dominix on the open market, and he probably is shilling for a good LP/isk Ratio.) Cool

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-08-25 21:42:51 UTC
Mukirana wrote:
Well my original idea was to use a sub-BS ship to run L4 missions, but after talking to some friends in game and asking here at the forum people told me that I'll never get as much DPS or kill faster than using a BS. (I don't Blitz mission I just kill everything Lol)

So I have already tried some ships:

**Raven: too low tank, I lost one at World Collides not my kind of ship

**Dominix: Very good ship, the only problem is that it is so slow, and that hybrids are the worst kind of weapon ( I will not mention the ASB Domi since I don't think it's viable in PvE - long reload time and estra cash for the charges)

**Navy Scorpion: Good ship, nice to fly but too overtanked ( even when you try to don't overtank it) and the DPS is a bit low.


Well most of my SP is at drones and missiles, especially heavy missiles and cruise missiles, so I was thinking about change from my Domi to a Rattlesnake or a Navy Domi. Which one should work better? I want something effective for my L4 missions. I wan't anything overtanked neither with a paper tank.

Any suggestion on a fit for those ships? I was looking at Battleclinic but most of the fits are so old and specially the rattle has like 2 or 3 fits (some are still passive).

So Navy Domi or Rattle? Not overtanked, not overpriced and not paper tank.

Thanks.




If you think the navy scorp is over tanked, well the rattler is even more so, I truly suggest the Navy Raven for speed or a slightly blingy nav scorp fitted for dps over tank(it can be done). Also a Tengu can still clear most missions fairly quickly (i am talking about killing everything as well) with only a couple cheap implants.

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Rengerel en Distel
#4 - 2012-08-25 22:05:02 UTC
When sisi comes back up (monday i think?) i believe it's a new mirror. Just try both ships and see what works for you.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Orator de Umbras
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-08-25 22:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Orator de Umbras
I'd recommend a Rattlesnake, but only if you can use T2 Torpedoes and T2 Heavy Drones on it.

With my skills- this is a forum alt -I get around 720 DPS with a 1k DPS Tanking ability to Sansha ships. It is cap stable, if you do not perma-run the AB. I also use Faction Shield Hardeners for the extra *umph*, but that is your call.

You can push another 200 DPS out of it by replacing the PDS II with Ballistic Control Systems, but it effectively cuts the tank in half, and I like having more tank on my missioning ships.

[Rattlesnake, PvE: Missions]

4x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

100MN Afterburner II
Shield Recharger II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II

3x Ballistic Control System II
3x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger I

10x Ogre II
10x Hammerhead II
10x Warrior II
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-25 22:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
CNR with Cruise
Golem with Torps
Vargur
Machariel

Those are the ships
Ofc a ship like Rattlesnake is gonna be excellent though, but it'll only deal about 75% of the damage the above options will, probably more like 65.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-08-25 22:28:39 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
CNR with Cruise
Golem with Torps
Vargur
Machariel

Those are the ships
Ofc a ship like Rattlesnake is gonna be excellent though, but it'll only deal about 75% of the damage the above options will, probably more like 65.


Shield gank NDomi deserves to be on that list. 1100 DPS with 45km optimal is not to be taken lightly. As long as you don't have to move.
Mukirana
Lone Lion Corporation
#8 - 2012-08-25 22:52:53 UTC
I see so much people talking about Machariel, Vargur and even Maelstrom and Sleipnir, are they so good? I've only tested minmatar cruisers and T1 battlecruiser. But people keep talking about them.

Should a Maelstrom beat a Dominix?

I'am really reluctant about the CNR and Golem, I'v tried them with a char of a friend and disliked, so other suggestions are accepted.

Thanks.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-08-26 01:18:52 UTC
Rattler has a better tank. Navy domi has better dps.

But if you don't like hyrbrids, it probably won't matter. Rattler is a great ship.
Orator de Umbras
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-08-26 02:23:08 UTC
Quote:
[Rattlesnake, PvE: Missions]

4x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

100MN Afterburner II
Shield Recharger II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
3x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger I

5x Ogre II
10x Hammerhead II
10x Warrior II
5x Garde II


This is a modified version of the fitting I posted earlier. The previous fitting did not include the new Drone Damage Amplifiers.

In theory with max skills, the rattlesnake can reach 1k DPS, while still having an awesome tank.
Kate Stenton
Foundation Enterprises
#11 - 2012-08-26 02:58:43 UTC
Gila?
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
#12 - 2012-08-26 03:09:01 UTC
i fly a active tanked rattler (full HG crystals ftw) for my missions and if i had to nitpick id say it takes too long to kill battle ships. possibly cuz i intentionly over tank my PVE ships.
if i wanted something that kills faster id take my tengu.

but since i dont fly a navy domi i cant put my 2 cents in on that 1.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#13 - 2012-08-26 06:04:06 UTC
Orator de Umbras wrote:
I'd recommend a Rattlesnake, but only if you can use T2 Torpedoes and T2 Heavy Drones on it.

With my skills- this is a forum alt -I get around 720 DPS with a 1k DPS Tanking ability to Sansha ships. It is cap stable, if you do not perma-run the AB. I also use Faction Shield Hardeners for the extra *umph*, but that is your call.

You can push another 200 DPS out of it by replacing the PDS II with Ballistic Control Systems, but it effectively cuts the tank in half, and I like having more tank on my missioning ships.

[Rattlesnake, PvE: Missions]

4x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

100MN Afterburner II
Shield Recharger II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II

3x Ballistic Control System II
3x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger I

10x Ogre II
10x Hammerhead II
10x Warrior II


Hi, I'm currently training skills to fly my first BS. I've chosen to fly a Navy Scorpion because its well tanked and I'm still under 1m SP, so I want something that can support my limited skills. Using my projected skills in EFT, I can get 307 DPS with cruise missiles (I believe 300 is the minimum threshold for level 4s). After reading your post, I'm considering switching to a torpedo fit, but I'm wondering how the AB holds up. Will I really have enough speed to keep up with other ships and get them in range of my weapons?

Oh god.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-08-26 06:12:02 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Orator de Umbras wrote:
I'd recommend a Rattlesnake, but only if you can use T2 Torpedoes and T2 Heavy Drones on it.

With my skills- this is a forum alt -I get around 720 DPS with a 1k DPS Tanking ability to Sansha ships. It is cap stable, if you do not perma-run the AB. I also use Faction Shield Hardeners for the extra *umph*, but that is your call.

You can push another 200 DPS out of it by replacing the PDS II with Ballistic Control Systems, but it effectively cuts the tank in half, and I like having more tank on my missioning ships.

[Rattlesnake, PvE: Missions]

4x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

100MN Afterburner II
Shield Recharger II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II

3x Ballistic Control System II
3x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger I

10x Ogre II
10x Hammerhead II
10x Warrior II


Hi, I'm currently training skills to fly my first BS. I've chosen to fly a Navy Scorpion because its well tanked and I'm still under 1m SP, so I want something that can support my limited skills. Using my projected skills in EFT, I can get 307 DPS with cruise missiles (I believe 300 is the minimum threshold for level 4s). After reading your post, I'm considering switching to a torpedo fit, but I'm wondering how the AB holds up. Will I really have enough speed to keep up with other ships and get them in range of my weapons?



NPCs are usually stupid and will come up into murder range

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#15 - 2012-08-26 06:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
My main concern would be Stasis Towers or Frigates with webs that sit just outside my range (the reason I switched the HAMs on my Drake), but I guess that's nothing a few days of drone training can't fix.

Oh god.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#16 - 2012-08-26 06:30:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Riot Girl wrote:
Orator de Umbras wrote:
I'd recommend a Rattlesnake, but only if you can use T2 Torpedoes and T2 Heavy Drones on it.

With my skills- this is a forum alt -I get around 720 DPS with a 1k DPS Tanking ability to Sansha ships. It is cap stable, if you do not perma-run the AB. I also use Faction Shield Hardeners for the extra *umph*, but that is your call.

You can push another 200 DPS out of it by replacing the PDS II with Ballistic Control Systems, but it effectively cuts the tank in half, and I like having more tank on my missioning ships.

[Rattlesnake, PvE: Missions]

4x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

100MN Afterburner II
Shield Recharger II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II

3x Ballistic Control System II
3x Shield Power Relay II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger I

10x Ogre II
10x Hammerhead II
10x Warrior II


Hi, I'm currently training skills to fly my first BS. I've chosen to fly a Navy Scorpion because its well tanked and I'm still under 1m SP, so I want something that can support my limited skills. Using my projected skills in EFT, I can get 307 DPS with cruise missiles (I believe 300 is the minimum threshold for level 4s). After reading your post, I'm considering switching to a torpedo fit, but I'm wondering how the AB holds up. Will I really have enough speed to keep up with other ships and get them in range of my weapons?


Your range needed depends really only upon the rats you'll encounter. Angels all come wery close, and are very fast, so like 20km range is sufficient (how will torpedoes perform however idk, a blaster vindi will melt them extremely fast), however other rats partially orbit at greater distances. Serpentis, some at about 50km, and some come very close. Against these, AB wont help (you wont get anywhere, you'll be slow), but MWD with heavy cap booster could maybe do it, but you'll eat charges very fast and risk going out of cap in critical moment. Also short range vs Angels means all their battleships will come to their optimal and will deal heavy dps, you need a lot of gank to clear them fast and survive, I fear much more than any T1 battleship can proviude, even with maxed skills. And if you need to warp out to rep yourself and return, your isk/hr will suffer.

In other words, if you opt for short range fit, have long range as well (or another ship better equipped for that)... And put damage control II just in case....

Also for missions like Dread Pirate Scarlet, and similar with mixed rats, you need range as well, you don't know in advance what will spawn....
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#17 - 2012-08-26 06:46:32 UTC
Thanks Nestara. I'm going to stick with Cruise Missiles and suffer with low DPS for a while. Hopefully within a week or two I can brush up enough of the basic skills I need to make missions go smoothly.

Oh god.
Beta Stryker
Yet Another Holding Corporation
#18 - 2012-08-26 11:21:23 UTC
Kate Stenton wrote:
Gila?


Surely you jest?
stoicfaux
#19 - 2012-08-26 12:18:19 UTC
Orator de Umbras wrote:
I'd recommend a Rattlesnake, but only if you can use T2 Torpedoes and T2 Heavy Drones on it.

[Rattlesnake, PvE: Missions]

4x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)


Cruise missiles will do more damage than Rage Torpedoes. If you're going to use torps on a Rattlesnake, you need to use multiple Target Painters and probably a Flare rig, otherwise you're better off with cruise missiles. As for using Rage Torps, they should work against stations/structures, otherwise leave them at home.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-08-26 15:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
full passive recharge setup with an X-L ancil to keep at 33% shield.

cheap easy robust does 650 dps from drones alone with two drone damage amps.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
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