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Intergalactic Summit

 
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A Crusader is always Neat and Tidy

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#181 - 2012-08-25 16:48:39 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
This week at the Academy we've been covering the Amarr-Jove war. What's struck me about the war, and the battle at Vak'Atioth in particular, is that the Amarrian sense of pride and arrogance often seems to overide Amarrian common sense. History tells of how the empire broadcasted for weeks prior to the battle messages of imperial dominance, proclaiming themselves as God's chosen, and yet despite the outcome of that battle which history tells us was one of the greatest defeats the empire has ever endured, Amarrians still persist in making similar proclamations to this day.

My point is that maybe when it comes to Amarrian/MInmatar diplomatic relations, the reason it so often seems that progress is so slow is partly because of this prideful stubbornness Amarrians display. Perhaps if the imperial crusaders were more mindful of this in their communication, a common ground beyond religious and cultural differences could be realized. Likewise maybe some of those on the side of the Republic could meet the Amarrians half way by being mindful of the possibility that during talks in the here and now, often the transgressions of the past seem at the forefront of their minds. My diplomacy teacher likes to say, "to realize peace now, we must often put aside that which happened then". I think this is especially true when one attempts to hold a person living in modern times accountable for the actions of those who lived generations ago. Which of course isn't to say that both sides do not continue to persist in violent acts against each other to this day.

Anyways that's my take on the diplomatic issues of the amarrian minmatar conflict. I hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm only a student after all and I don't assume to speak from any position of authority.


This is what makes Amarrians strong, this is what makes them fight no matter what. This defeat of Amarrians doesn't demerit them, counterwise, it shows how they can endure hard times. We all have something to learn from them.
And you with your 'common sense' can run away after your former president Foiritan.


Horak Thor wrote:
Azdan do you even do anything outside of the public forum?

Ive had an agent sat outside your station in Penirgman for the last 2 days and youve just been there docked shouting your mouth.
Please undock so i can ehem have words with you.

You can try to 'talk' with me instead. I won't make you wait for so long, if you come to my door.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#182 - 2012-08-25 18:36:40 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?


The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?


Theres a difference between invading and retrieving stolen property. You invaded us and took our people history and holy relics.
Your worlds will burn until we get them back.

And we will get them back

.....

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#183 - 2012-08-25 18:40:45 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
Azdan Amith wrote:

...


Azdan do you even do anything outside of the public forum?

Ive had an agent sat outside your station in Penirgman for the last 2 days and youve just been there docked shouting your mouth.
Please undock so i can ehem have words with you.


My sincerest apologies. You may recall I have just finished creating a corporation under the banner of the Empire, such a task requires that a basic level of administrivia be seen to in order to create a solid foundation for the corporation to grow from. Establishing communication channels, role and title delegations, descriptions, advertisements, hangars and so on. This is a tedious process that takes significant time investment. So yes, I've been sitting within a station for the past couple of days seeing to these tasks, ordering my house, if you will.

To answer your question, yes.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#184 - 2012-08-25 18:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Diana Kim wrote:

You can try to 'talk' with me instead. I won't make you wait for so long, if you come to my door.


We've talked before. me and my brothers have destroyed many of your ships. As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.

.....

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#185 - 2012-08-25 18:46:43 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
Azdan Amith wrote:

...


Azdan do you even do anything outside of the public forum?

Ive had an agent sat outside your station in Penirgman for the last 2 days and youve just been there docked shouting your mouth.
Please undock so i can ehem have words with you.


My sincerest apologies. You may recall I have just finished creating a corporation under the banner of the Empire, such a task requires that a basic level of administrivia be seen to in order to create a solid foundation for the corporation to grow from. Establishing communication channels, role and title delegations, descriptions, advertisements, hangars and so on. This is a tedious process that takes significant time investment. So yes, I've been sitting within a station for the past couple of days seeing to these tasks, ordering my house, if you will.

To answer your question, yes.


excellent.

.....

Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#186 - 2012-08-25 19:06:26 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.


Wow, I'm so glad you're a reasonable enemy and not one blinded by hatred and the pain you've suffered and wish to cause others to suffer. I can really see us being able to reach some sort of compromise and understanding through reasonable dialog. NOT.

And it's a shame, because your fantasy of taking the Empire's systems, invading their planets, capturing the slaves and shuttling them off to the Republic, recapturing the holy relics you claim we stole from you and making our own holy cathedrals burn. Well, it's just that. It's a fantasy. If you can enter the Empire's space at all it's only because you have followed the rules enough to not be labelled outlaw by the Empire. If you attack anything, it's only because you have leave to fire upon it from Empire authorities.

And if you manage to kill Father Amith, it'll only be to cause him to awaken, perhaps in the same station he just undocked from.

Your rage will not achieve what you want it to achieve.
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#187 - 2012-08-25 19:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Amaki Mai wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.


Wow, I'm so glad you're a reasonable enemy and not one blinded by hatred and the pain you've suffered and wish to cause others to suffer. I can really see us being able to reach some sort of compromise and understanding through reasonable dialog. NOT.

And it's a shame, because your fantasy of taking the Empire's systems, invading their planets, capturing the slaves and shuttling them off to the Republic, recapturing the holy relics you claim we stole from you and making our own holy cathedrals burn. Well, it's just that. It's a fantasy. If you can enter the Empire's space at all it's only because you have followed the rules enough to not be labelled outlaw by the Empire. If you attack anything, it's only because you have leave to fire upon it from Empire authorities.

And if you manage to kill Father Amith, it'll only be to cause him to awaken, perhaps in the same station he just undocked from.

Your rage will not achieve what you want it to achieve.


I have roved your highest security regions and killed amarrians at my whim. your security forces had no say in the matter, i could recount these kills to you but if youd really like to see maybe a private mail would satisfy your curiosity?

And i do not fantasize about burning your worlds, your cathedrals, or seeking retribution.
I fantasize about a day when all Minmatar are free, when we can call this war over and our people once again united.

Until that day, when my realization is met, we will continue to be in a state of war, do i take pleasure in killing you in the mean time? yes. Do not forget my tribe is the most numerous of the enslaved. I try to remind amarrians that not all of us are subjugated.

When you stop thinking that this is a war of vengeance for past wrongs, and start realizing its a war to free our people that RIGHT NOW, at this very moment are in bondage, we will be singing of the same song sheet.

Oh and i am labled an outlaw by the amarr it hasnt stopped me killing around 100 ships in your high sec.

.....

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#188 - 2012-08-25 19:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Azdan Amith
Horak Thor wrote:
We've talked before. me and my brothers have destroyed many of your ships. As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.


Should you manage to catch me, destroy my ship and destroy my pod, you will have accomplished three things:

  • Proven that rather than actually try and settle the disputes between us you would prefer to simply kill, which validates my original accusations against you
  • Forced me to purchase a new clone contract and implants
  • Destroyed a ship


The truth is that I am already a clone, that is part of becoming a capsuleer these days. Second, being cloned has nothing to do with seeing God. Third, I have no problem facing you in combat if that is the only language you speak. However, it will accomplish nothing except perhaps making you feel superior for a time.

A shame, really. Where do you wish to meet?

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#189 - 2012-08-25 19:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Azdan Amith wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
We've talked before. me and my brothers have destroyed many of your ships. As you and yours have of mine theres something about killing an amarrian's first pod.

The realization when they wake that they've been cloned and will never see god. yes thats something quite different.


Should you manage to catch me, destroy my ship and destroy my pod, you will have accomplished three things:

  • Proven that rather than actually try and settle the disputes between us you would prefer to simply kill, which validates my original accusations against you
  • Forced me to purchase a new clone contract and implants
  • Destroyed a ship


The truth is that I am already a clone, that is part of becoming a capsuleer these days. Second, being cloned has nothing to do with seeing God. Third, I have no problem facing you in combat if that is the only language you speak. However, it will accomplish nothing except perhaps making you feel superior for a time.

A shame, really. Where do you wish to meet?


And i haven't been trying to settle this "dispute" you called it?

There are a few problems here.
1) Ten's of billions of people enslaved is not a dispute its a dahm crime against humanity.
2) Your view is clearly that of your extremist bretheren, that the minmatar need to be enslaved to be saved.

Because of point 2 you have commited a crime against my people and my tribe. for that there can only be death.

You want a straight out fight with a combat record of 0? it will hardly be a challenge. no i think hunting will be much more fun, you might be in a ship actually worth something when i catch you.

Also an Amarrian capsuleer sacrifices his right to see God, that is fact. Cloning is heretical if im correct? anyway this seems to be the view of most amarrian pilots im fighting against. Your not yet a clone unless youve self destructed your pod, since there is 0 record of you ever having lost one.

.....

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#190 - 2012-08-25 20:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Azdan Amith
Horak Thor wrote:
There are a few problems here.
1) Ten's of billions of people enslaved is not a dispute its a dahm crime against humanity.
2) Your view is clearly that of your extremist bretheren, that the minmatar need to be enslaved to be saved.

Because of point 2 you have commited a crime against my people and my tribe. for that there can only be death.


Interesting since I've never once stated to hold that view, but I appreciate you telling me what my viewpoint is for me, it will help me clear the muddied waters a bit.

Thank you for confirming that your interest is in vengeance and further reiterating that your desire isn't simply for "freedom," but rather for retribution and you justify your own crimes against others because you believe your sin is the lesser.

Horak Thor wrote:
You want a straight out fight with a combat record of 0? it will hardly be a challenge. no i think hunting will be much more fun, you might be in a ship actually worth something when i catch you.


...you reveal more of your wretched character and depravity with each successive comment. Not only have you expressed dismay in no longer having an enemy to fight, your interest is in getting an "expensive" kill and slaughtering as many people as you can. Fantastic, I gave you entirely too much credit at the start of this discussion.

Horak Thor wrote:
Also an Amarrian capsuleer sacrifices his right to see God, that is fact. Cloning is heretical if im correct? anyway this seems to be the view of most amarrian pilots im fighting against. Your not yet a clone unless youve self destructed your pod, since there is 0 record of you ever having lost one.


Wrong on every single count. Weren't you the one judging me for being ignorant?

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#191 - 2012-08-25 21:39:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Horak Thor wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:


Its General actually do a little background research, and im not from a race of people that have invaded or enslaved anyone in our history can you say the same?


The Minmatar have never invaded anyone?

So I imagined those wrecks above Mekhios, did I?

And did I imagine this as well?


Theres a difference between invading and retrieving stolen property. You invaded us and took our people history and holy relics.
Your worlds will burn until we get them back.

And we will get them back



Firstly, if the Minmatar felt so unhappy about the status quo, maybe they shouldn't have signed treaties to say that they accepted it.

Secondly, the Minmatar had only settled three systems when we absorbed them into our Empire. Therefore, the Shakorites are currently occupying sovereign Amarrian territory according to history as well as those treaties.

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property. We have receipts. More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders. They weren't taken from you or anyone else.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#192 - 2012-08-25 21:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Oliver
Rodj Blake wrote:
Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property. We have receipts.
Receipts signed in generations of blood and notarized by every person who has ever lost a loved one to the reclaimings.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#193 - 2012-08-25 22:42:36 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property. We have receipts.
Receipts signed in generations of blood and notarized by every person who has ever lost a loved one to the reclaimings.


In blood? My - how dramatic. I'm not a Holder myself, but when I used to use Slaves as part of my ship crews (yes, Minmatar destroying Amarrian capsuleer ships are failing to kill the capsuleer they abhor and mostly ending the lives of regular Amarrians and the very slaves they wish to save) my receipts were in blood and notarised by the releveant trade bureaus.

Honestly, have the Gallenteans WEAPONISED hyperbole?
Mara Black
Dreamseeker Industries
#194 - 2012-08-25 22:44:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

This is what makes Amarrians strong, this is what makes them fight no matter what. This defeat of Amarrians doesn't demerit them, counterwise, it shows how they can endure hard times. We all have something to learn from them.
And you with your 'common sense' can run away after your former president Foiritan.


The Amarr dream big.

Their goals reach far beyond their own comfort, their own wallet, even their own lives.

They can make them both foolhardy and inspiring.

The Amarr have, more than any other people, always reached for the stars. They also have more incidences of their reach exceeding their grasp.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#195 - 2012-08-26 00:04:08 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

...Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property. We have receipts. More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders. They weren't taken from you or anyone else.


You're forgetting that the ancestors of all Matari slaves born as slaves in Amarrian space were originally kidnapped from our home worlds, Blake. They didn't magically appear on Athra one day begging to be "reclaimed". They were forcibly removed from their homes and transported to imperial space.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#196 - 2012-08-26 00:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
Azdan Amith wrote:

.....


Azdan then let me ask you this.

Do you believe the minmatar enslaved by the amarr should be free'd?

Do you believe it is the amarrians right to reclaim all of new eden?

Excuse me if i misunderstood something you have said and led me to believe you were saying something you were not, this is a bi-product of you expunging 1000 words when 10 will do.

.....

Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#197 - 2012-08-26 00:52:11 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

Lastly, you're forgetting one very important thing: those slaves are our property.
We have receipts.
More to the point, the overwhelming majority of slaves were born as slaves within Imperial borders.
They weren't taken from you or anyone else.


This is a pretty ******** obvious is obvious comment. We're at war over the fact you believe they are your property, the entire Minmatar Amarr conflict is based around this.

Glad you know the basics, didnt take you long to work it out.

.....

Azdan Amith
Doomheim
#198 - 2012-08-26 03:18:33 UTC
Horak Thor wrote:
Do you believe the minmatar enslaved by the amarr should be free'd?


As a whole? No. From the corrupt and unrighteous Holders, from those that take slaves illegally and from those that slaughter wholesale and profane human life with disdain? Absolutely, or at least moved to a more righteous Holder.

Horak Thor wrote:
Do you believe it is the amarrians right to reclaim all of new eden?


Our "right?" No. It is our sacred duty. However, I suspect that your understanding of what the Reclaiming actually is may be somewhat skewed by misrepresentation from many Amarr capsuleers.

Horak Thor wrote:
Excuse me if i misunderstood something you have said and led me to believe you were saying something you were not, this is a bi-product of you expunging 1000 words when 10 will do.


Using fewer words often allows for greater holes and increased misunderstandings. If my decision to be thorough frustrates you then perhaps it is better if we simply cease the conversation. You've already declared your intent to hunt me down and destroy my ship anyway, further discussion is rather pointless.

~Archon Azdan Amith,  Order of Light's Retribution

Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#199 - 2012-08-26 03:30:03 UTC
Azdan Amith wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
Do you believe it is the amarrians right to reclaim all of new eden?


Our "right?" No. It is our sacred duty.
For the sake of those who live free as well as for those who have never known freedom, may there always be those who would subvert your so called "duty" every step of the way.
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#200 - 2012-08-26 04:08:13 UTC
So earlier when i said
Horak Thor wrote:

There are a few problems here.
1) Ten's of billions of people enslaved is not a dispute its a dahm crime against humanity.
2) Your view is clearly that of your extremist bretheren, that the minmatar need to be enslaved to be saved.

Because of point 2 you have commited a crime against my people and my tribe. for that there can only be death.


And then you said
Azdan Amite wrote:

Interesting since I've never once stated to hold that view, but I appreciate you telling me what my viewpoint is for me, it will help me clear the muddied waters a bit.


so to clear up any confusion we may have had.

Horak Thor wrote:

1) Do you believe the minmatar enslaved by the amarr should be free'd?
2)Do you believe it is the amarrians right to reclaim all of new eden?


Azdan Amith wrote:

1)As a whole? No. From the corrupt and unrighteous Holders, from those that take slaves illegally and from those that slaughter wholesale and profane human life with disdain? Absolutely, or at least moved to a more righteous Holder.

2)Our "right?" No. It is our sacred duty. However, I suspect that your understanding of what the Reclaiming actually is may be somewhat skewed by misrepresentation from many Amarr capsuleers.


So excuse me if im wrong but didnt you just deny and then confirm on the exact same issue?
I mean if you dont even know what your talking about or what your views are how the hell are we supposed to sort anything out.

No wonder i feel like im headbutting a brick wall.

.....