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[ECM] Imagine an Arazu locking down 4+ ships
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Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#121 - 2012-08-25 02:09:18 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
XxRTEKxX wrote:
FOF Missiles work if you have them skilled and get close enough to the ecm ship so that those missiles engage that ship. Works in Serpentis missions when damped to hell and Guristas missions when perma-jammed.

"empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Be water my friend" -Bruce Lee


Well here's the thing. They may well work in missions. This is not a discussion about PVE.
There are not many PVP ships which can even use F.O.F missiles and be effective at driving off a Falcon/Rook. You need enough damage to get it off the field in about 30 seconds or less, which is still a massive waste of your DPS. What PvP ships ingame are viable to do this.



Sorry, but you're wrong. As soon as you go flashy red to a Falcon, they will warp off, because they can't risk taking much damage. The purpose of a Falcon's tank is to give them time to leave the fight when they get targetted, not to allow them to stay around during the fight.

As I said earlier, drones and FOF counter ECM by making them warp off, which then makes the Falcon as effective as the mothership in your POS 24 jumps away. i.e. If it's not there, it isn't any use.


Well, Drones and FOF determine how long it takes for the Falcon to warp off.
the standard run of the mill 1600 plate Falcon can take about 20-30 seconds of sustained F.O.Fing from a Drake/Tengu before being at a dangerous point where they have to leave the field. Bearing in mind thats if the F.O.Fs are hitting the Falcon, or if Drones are on the Falcon and the Falcon is in drone control range; 57,000m for most pilots. A 1600m Falcon can have a set of medium drones (Valkries, the worst kind for falcon resists) on it for more than a minute before it has to leave.

I am not saying it doesn't have the potential to make a Falcon warp off.

I am saying that FOFs and Drones are not very effective counters because there are too many variables in real world fights that makes them a reliable counter, unbonused drones don't do enough DPS, on their own to force it off in a reasonable timeframe. FOFs are more or less only going to be worthwhile from Drake/Tengu/Nighthawk in terms of DPS output enough to get a Falcon off the field in a decent timeframe.

I'd also like to point out that FOFs are broken as hell and will shoot drones 0m from you, fleet members and a variety of other things. It's really fun getting Falcon'd on a gate and your FOF missiles shoot the rats instead...

ECCM and ECM are the much more reliable and affordable alternatives. Don't buy into EFT armchair generals and Falcon Apologists who say otherwise. Given the choice between having F.O.Fs and an ECCM module I'll take the ECCM module.

I really don't know why I am arguing with a collection of alts with 0 kills and 0 losses.

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Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#122 - 2012-08-25 02:57:26 UTC
That's why I suspended my second account. ECM is too sucky in small solo pew pew. But Iwill wait few years
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#123 - 2012-08-25 03:49:20 UTC
ECM is an annoying mechanic. Like being stun locked in any game ever with a rogue class.

Is it game breaking?
No, not for me.

Would I care if it were removed?
Not particularly.

Do I care if other people care if it is removed?
Not at all.


I think mechanics that take control away from a player are just frustrating. I.E. Stun-Locks or Perma-Jams. However I understand its purpose and have been known to fly a Scorpion on rare occasions. Still, I think if the mechanic were removed entirely the level of frustration some people experience in some situations would dissipate. My idea of PvP, on rare occasions when I give it a try, is basically just brawling and seeing who hits harder or (more my preference) supplying my allies with remote reps from my Guardian.
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#124 - 2012-08-25 06:12:01 UTC
*Throws a bunch of smartbombs on the floor*
*Points at the Falcon*

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#125 - 2012-08-25 06:45:15 UTC
Suitonia wrote:


I really don't know why I am arguing with a collection of alts with 0 kills and 0 losses.


Since when does CVA have anything of relevance to add to the game or discussions about the game?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Katalci
Kismesis
#126 - 2012-08-25 10:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
ECM is fine.

Compare all of the recons --

Curse (2TD, 2.5 neut, 2 nosferatu, 5x Vespa EC-600) -- 2 turret ships disabled, 2-4 laser ships or logis completely disabled, one ship jammed about half the time, all probably averaging at about 4 ships disabled.

The Arazu is interesting in that is ewar is mainly effective against the smallest and the biggest ships -- you can range dampen frigates to force them into web range, and you can scanres dampen carriers into uselessness. It takes two falcons focusing their jammers to disable a carrier for 2/3 of the time, but a single Arazu with 3 damps can shut it down, making it take up to a minute to lock a BC. Damps aren't really all that bad; it's just that they're specialized. (They could use a bit of a buff for numbers, but not too much)

Huginn -- Doesn't really disable anything, (except for maybe controlling the field in very small engagements) but it performs in its role as a force multiplier for large guns very effectively.

Falcon (armor, 6 jammers) -- You can permajam most frigates and some cruisers. BCs and above have about half a chance to get jammed. ~3-4 targets disabled.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#127 - 2012-08-25 10:35:00 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Suitonia wrote:


I really don't know why I am arguing with a collection of alts with 0 kills and 0 losses.


Since when does CVA have anything of relevance to add to the game or discussions about the game?


(he's actually in hydra)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-08-25 12:16:49 UTC
This is like the "I'm too lazy to probe so I want OGBs gone." Thread.

Never changes.