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Habro and CCP Announce NERF Ship Deal
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Overs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-23 20:51:07 UTC
For those of you who have never noticed, CCP lists various stats of their ships such as mass and volume. These stats are relevant to game mechanics, but to reality, they are hilarious bad science.

For example, the Dominix:

ship mass: 97,100,000 kg
ship volume: 454,500 m3

This is a bit odd because with these values the density of the Dominix works out to be 0.21 g/cm3 which is a little denser than a heavy foam. So the next time you complain about CCP "nerfing" your ship...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2012-08-23 20:57:59 UTC
Overs wrote:
For those of you who have never noticed, CCP lists various stats of their ships such as mass and volume. These stats are relevant to game mechanics, but to reality, they are hilarious bad science.

For example, the Dominix:

ship mass: 97,100,000 kg
ship volume: 454,500 m3

This is a bit odd because with these values the density of the Dominix works out to be 0.21 g/cm3 which is a little denser than a heavy foam. So the next time you complain about CCP "nerfing" your ship...


So what you're saying is that there's a lot of empty space in an internet space ship?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-23 20:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
you are assuming the ship is solid and does not contain hollow space.

btw: try the same for packaged T3 subsystems.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#4 - 2012-08-23 21:21:34 UTC
The math gets even better.
Have a look at the shape of the ship and the ingame description.
It is 894 m long on the x axis, about 300 m at the max z axis, and about 100 m minimum on the y axis.

Assuming it is 894 long, and 100 m wide, that is 89,400 sq m.
To meet the 454,000 cu m, that means the max along the z axis is around 5 m....
Sturmwolke
#5 - 2012-08-23 21:27:53 UTC
Whats the problem? Working as intended, it'll float on water.
You never saw a (steel) ship float?
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-08-23 21:31:25 UTC
a density much less than one is expected. It merely means that the ship has significant amounts of air inside, which makes sense. The volume numbers on the other hand....
Overs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-08-23 22:01:19 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
...You never saw a (steel) ship float?

You ever see a submarine submerge?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#8 - 2012-08-23 22:35:30 UTC
Aaron Greil wrote:
a density much less than one is expected. It merely means that the ship has significant amounts of air inside, which makes sense. The volume numbers on the other hand....


The problem with empty space is that means there is no justification for such a tiny cargo space.
Consider, 600 cu metres = 20m x 10m x 3 m, which is itty bitty compared to the volume of the hull.

CCP should pay me to redo all the volumes and masses of all ships, and scale up the volume and sizes of hold, and the according volume of all the stuff that goes in the holds.

CCP, I have no life, you can have me do the work cheaply.

It would be nice to see that 1400 mm projectiles are not a few cm thick to justify their current volume.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-23 22:55:38 UTC
Overs wrote:
For those of you who have never noticed, CCP lists various stats of their ships such as mass and volume. These stats are relevant to game mechanics, but to reality, they are hilarious bad science.

For example, the Dominix:

ship mass: 97,100,000 kg
ship volume: 454,500 m3

This is a bit odd because with these values the density of the Dominix works out to be 0.21 g/cm3 which is a little denser than a heavy foam. So the next time you complain about CCP "nerfing" your ship...


Damnit you. I was envisioning clubbing my sons with a giant foam Brutix during nerf fights.

Instead this thread is about science. Not cool man. Not cool.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Sturmwolke
#10 - 2012-08-23 23:12:41 UTC
Overs wrote:
You ever see a submarine submerge?

Don't they both work on the same principle?
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#11 - 2012-08-24 02:17:34 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Overs wrote:
You ever see a submarine submerge?

Don't they both work on the same principle?

Yes. Yes they do.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#12 - 2012-08-24 04:03:50 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Aaron Greil wrote:
a density much less than one is expected. It merely means that the ship has significant amounts of air inside, which makes sense. The volume numbers on the other hand....


The problem with empty space is that means there is no justification for such a tiny cargo space.
Consider, 600 cu metres = 20m x 10m x 3 m, which is itty bitty compared to the volume of the hull.

CCP should pay me to redo all the volumes and masses of all ships, and scale up the volume and sizes of hold, and the according volume of all the stuff that goes in the holds.

CCP, I have no life, you can have me do the work cheaply.

It would be nice to see that 1400 mm projectiles are not a few cm thick to justify their current volume.

You have to remember the empty space for the work crews who put the ship together in the first place, and the crew quarters, and the drone bay, and for the guns to retract into the hull, and likely many other little things. It is also possible that whatever the reactor is made out of has a really low density (maybe even a negative one, given EVE physics).


Volume however... I got nothin.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-08-24 06:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Corina Jarr wrote:
It is also possible that whatever the reactor is made out of has a really low density (maybe even a negative one, given EVE physics).


No need for that. Take for instance your usual naval nuclear reactor. Obviously, that thing is made out of considerably denser material than water - yet for all that, you only need a total of about 15 kg per kW in the gas turbine version - a total weight of about 2800 tons for a ship the size of Iowa (class, not state :p). Gallente use fusion reactors, which would be even lighter, as they are essentially just a combination of electromagnetic pressure chambers and lasers, combined with hydrogen and resultant helium.

As for the volume itself, I wouldn't really look at it that way - it's essentially just a stat that limits where you can carry it. For instance, Oracle and Tengu are almost the same size graphic-wise, yet Tengu's volume is 92.000 m3, same as Caracals, whereas Oracle's volume is 234000 m3, only slightly under the Drake's, which is over a quarter longer than either, yet has silly model volume compared to both. Likewise, Caracal's length is almost the same as Tengu's yet I think we can all agree that the volume should be drastically different.

Long story short - imo, CCP should have done cargo in tons and just given ships their weight, or just refered to cargo space in "units".
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#14 - 2012-08-24 12:06:41 UTC
We all knew WI was bad but hot damn this one has been huffing paint thinner it seems.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-08-24 13:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Wingmate
Vilnius Zar wrote:
We all knew WI was bad but hot damn this one has been huffing paint thinner it seems.


best post in thread. and by best i mean most worthless, by a worthless throwaway forum alt, trolling one of the few interesting posts in this forum. go back to GenDisc.

OP, how do cap ships balance out? i'd be willing to bet that the math for them is even worse.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-08-24 13:32:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Overs wrote:
For those of you who have never noticed, CCP lists various stats of their ships such as mass and volume. These stats are relevant to game mechanics, but to reality, they are hilarious bad science.

For example, the Dominix:

ship mass: 97,100,000 kg
ship volume: 454,500 m3

This is a bit odd because with these values the density of the Dominix works out to be 0.21 g/cm3 which is a little denser than a heavy foam. So the next time you complain about CCP "nerfing" your ship...


So what you're saying is that there's a lot of empty space in an internet space ship?

-Liang

mmm... let's say it another way:
there's a lot of empty space IN AN BATTLESHIP WHICH NEEDS TO BE HEAVILY TANKED WITH ARMOR, FITTED BY GUNS AND CARRY MANY DRONES. Cool

this variant sound little more interesting isn't it?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#17 - 2012-08-24 13:50:57 UTC
Oh yeah? Add up the mass of all the celstials in a system and divide that by the total volume of the system and you get a number not at all unlike zero.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#18 - 2012-08-24 13:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Wingmate wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
We all knew WI was bad but hot damn this one has been huffing paint thinner it seems.


best post in thread. and by best i mean most worthless, by a worthless throwaway forum alt, trolling one of the few interesting posts in this forum. go back to GenDisc.

OP, how do cap ships balance out? i'd be willing to bet that the math for them is even worse.


Not an alt. Also, some clown posts about how a ship's density is lower than he expected. How are the OP's brainfarts an interesting post?
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-08-24 19:09:44 UTC
there's a difference between "lower than he expected" and "completely broken and therefore mildly interesting to talk about". is there anything else going on that this is boxing out? not really. S&M is a boring forum compared to google searches for the same term.

also:

archon:
mass: 1,012,500,000.00 kg
volume: 13,950,000.00 m3
roughly 0.07258g/c3, otherwise known as 4.11 lb/ft3, or a bit less than a third the density of cork.

an archon would float easily in water - indeed, it was be launched into the air by the waves while displacing an exceptionally small amount!

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Le'Mon Tichim
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-08-24 21:10:51 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
there's a difference between "lower than he expected" and "completely broken and therefore mildly interesting to talk about". is there anything else going on that this is boxing out? not really. S&M is a boring forum compared to google searches for the same term.

also:

archon:
mass: 1,012,500,000.00 kg
volume: 13,950,000.00 m3
roughly 0.07258g/c3, otherwise known as 4.11 lb/ft3, or a bit less than a third the density of cork.

an archon would float easily in water - indeed, it was be launched into the air by the waves while displacing an exceptionally small amount!



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Can you hear them? They are calling to us. It is beautiful. http://thegreattichim.wordpress.com/