These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Discussion] - New POS system ( SAND CASTLES - Blackbuilt)

First post
Author
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#21 - 2012-08-19 13:39:06 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
heres a mockup image of what im on about

Description:

  • The tower has 5 levels, this corresponds to the 5 midslots in the fitting window.
  • Expansion Collars in the mids in the example allows additional modules to be attached.
  • The highest level midslot has been used up by a subcapital ship docking bay (adding space for 100 subcap ships)
  • If the tower didnt have a docking bay there would be space for only 3 ships (default).


The highslots add powerful functionality, in this case it has a jump drive (using up substantial CPU/PG). This mod has a substancial spool up timer so to not abuse reinforcement timers.

Other highslots can add for example:

  • An additional midslot level to the tower for increased functionality and module expansion.
  • Cloaks
  • Remote resource transfer (to other towers in range, required to receive resources)
  • SuperCapital Docking collars (3 collars per module)


Low slots add local resource expansions to the tower for example:

  • Auxillary Power Reactors (adding 500k MW per mod)
  • Processing Mainframes (adding 10% per mod for t2 - subject to stacking penalties)
  • Fuel Bay Expanders (adding 17% per mod for t1 - subject to stacking penalties)


Low Slot Power and CPU expansion reduce the number of consecutive timers the tower has. An unfitted tower has 5 reinforcements. every 2 low slots used reduces the reinforcement by 1. A fully maxxed out tower has 1 reinforcement timer.
A tower cannot use active highslot modules when in a reinforcement timer (eg cloaks / jump drives)

Midslot expansions
The hexagonal grid of the midslot expansions allows customised looks and functionality whilst providing a basis for ease of coding and artwork. having a a modular system means you need scalability and simplicity, so basing all modules on a standard sized template or multiples of it is the best option.

why hexagons? cause theyre cool, and theyre the most efficient structure in physics, which is why they appear in nature soo much (groups of bubbles / bee hives etc..) they also have the ability to make cool structures too!

comment away! =)
Aniqua Moliko
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-08-19 17:56:50 UTC
like the mock up pic u made. very cool! =)

ohh... and go for hexagons!!!! woop!
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-08-20 02:15:33 UTC
Hawkeye2816 wrote:
Now, much of this I like. A couple things worry me, though, and perhaps I'm overreacting.

First, you say that the guns and such would be accessible through WiS. I should certainly hope that this function would also be available to those of us without the supercomputers required to actually do that. As it stands, the CQ is still horribly optimised. On top of this, player movement is incredibly slow, so I also hope that the buttons/controls/whatever to use this stuff isn't too far from wherever you spawn when you enter the base or log on.


I was thinking about a "Ship pinning screen" or a Station Spinning Screen for this... the important is to be able to use the structures function... the WiS is only to make things looks better...


Hawkeye2816 wrote:

Second, skills and permissions are already a pain to remember. I realize you could probably cannibalize a lot of other skills and permissions (i.e. Anchoring, Starbase Defense Management, etc.), but a few should be added. For instance, you mention that towers with this system would be transferable between players implying an implicit ownership. If skills were added that could effect the performance of starbases based on the level that the player owner has in these skills, that would add a lot of complexity, but a lot more variation, as well. As it stands, it isn't rocket science to build a POS; all you have to do is have the anchoring skills and shove the thing out an airlock. If you had to have operations skills for certain modules on a POS, like you do for a ship, then that would add difficulty in setting it up. Of course, this couldn't be done easily, as all those wanting to set up towers would have to now train a bunch of new skills, but they could be made 1x skills, or something, where you only need the skill at level 1 to use the module in much the same manner as subsystem skills on T3s.

Also, hi Vel.


I think it would be nice iff CCP make a remake of the outpost/POS skills...and add diferent skill levels to the pos, like if you want to have a simple pos, 1 day training would do, to anchor something usefull, but if you want to set up an Epic Starbase, with capital structures and Titan construction stuff, then probably it would be good to take sometime for it...

Also I think it would be nice to merge the POS and the Outpost construction skills in the same tree...
LiBraga
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-08-20 19:12:10 UTC
Not bad...
You're right when you say it's familiar to my previous suggestion
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142837

However I do still think they should be grown (built over time with resources) to give industrialists a defined, required role in 0.0 as opposed to mega rich alliances just buying the packs and building them.

If maintenance was required i.e minerals etc as well as fuel then alliances would be encouraged to occupy territory and consolidate more. Freeing up more space for new alliances whilst creating greater demand for miners and industrialists within 0.0.
Of course something would have to be done with Stations in 0.0 as they are atm (maybe enable maintenance requirements for them also), as time went on without maintenance different facilities would go offline due to "wear and tear" / atrophy to the point where they would become ruins of the "good ol days".

If it moves.... You obviously didn't kill it the first time.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#25 - 2012-08-20 19:26:55 UTC
Li all thatd mean is null sec alliances would have a couple more things to buy on jita runs, itd be safer and easier to buy whats required for maintenance costs in highsec than sourcing them locally.

especially if its low grade materials from PI or from Mining.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-08-20 19:47:10 UTC
LiBraga wrote:

However I do still think they should be grown (built over time with resources) to give industrialists a defined, required role in 0.0 as opposed to mega rich alliances just buying the packs and building them.


I have the same opinion, wen I suggested the building packs, I was thinking about the current POS system... There must be a way to transfer the old buildings into the new system, so if all get transformed into packs these could be used in the new system without making people mad about losing their precious isk and stuff.
Although It would be wise preventing 2 things for this to work as intended:
1- These construction BPOS ( transformed from the old ones) could be only constructed on the New Starbases.
2- Once the pack is put inside the Construction Base, noone would be able to remove.( including repacked buildings).
So, every alliance will want a industrialist to build and manage the starbase, and since there are allot of these industrialists wanting to play a important role in alliances and corporations but noone like them this will be a wellcome addition to the game.

LiBraga wrote:

If maintenance was required i.e minerals etc as well as fuel then alliances would be encouraged to occupy territory and consolidate more. Freeing up more space for new alliances whilst creating greater demand for miners and industrialists within 0.0.
Of course something would have to be done with Stations in 0.0 as they are atm (maybe enable maintenance requirements for them also), as time went on without maintenance different facilities would go offline due to "wear and tear" / atrophy to the point where they would become ruins of the "good ol days".


The plan is: Minerals and PI are used to build the Starbase, and PI with ICE are used as fuel: and since aliances allways want more and bigger they will seek more and more resources. So, the alliances in null-sec will probably spread econnomic industrial Starbases around a region to gather resources, that will be taken to the alliance main Starbase to upgrade and maintain it.

Also we got to remember that CCP plans to put ICE gravimetrics whith spawning possibilities on every system, this will allow small alliances and corps to have a change of autonomy, while the big alliances will hold the Ice Belts.
Vasya Kosyakov
X-Exclusion-X
#27 - 2012-08-21 07:08:37 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Li all thatd mean is null sec alliances would have a couple more things to buy on jita runs, itd be safer and easier to buy whats required for maintenance costs in highsec than sourcing them locally.

especially if its low grade materials from PI or from Mining.


Dont be a troll, u just answered your own problem. Make sure the fuel / minerals are not the basic highsec stuff.

For null based outposts make it nullsec sorced stuff, lowsec should be lowsec sorced stuff.

The thread is about ideas and working things out... constructive criticism...
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#28 - 2012-08-23 04:18:04 UTC
I have had a idea like yours, though different in some ways

One way to update towers without a huge graphical change, is to keep the tower, but have modules physicaly connect to them at fixed hard points that when a module is placed, a extending connection exists between it and the tower.. Fitted exactly like ships, with varying number of slots, highslots being guns, low slots industry, and medium slots science related.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-08-23 05:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
I have had a idea like yours, though different in some ways

One way to update towers without a huge graphical change, is to keep the tower, but have modules physicaly connect to them at fixed hard points that when a module is placed, a extending connection exists between it and the tower.. Fitted exactly like ships, with varying number of slots, highslots being guns, low slots industry, and medium slots science related.



Yes, this have being discussed here... This is a simple solution to the problem, what is good, and if you look at post #21 you will se that this idea is really good compared to the actual system... But it have a couple of flaws:

1- It limits the player freedom on shaping the POS, because it becomes restricted by slots and pre-set shapes...

2 - It limits the maximum size of the POS... so we don't get the best sensation of building something epic and unique, that can be as big and as unique as you can gather resources to... ( If YOU build it, it becomes unique, if you buy one with x y and z... it becomes just another... like T3 strategic cruisers... there are allot of them that just look like the same....)

But despite of this.... It is a realy good Idea.... : )
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-08-24 09:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Yeah I think as long as the POS is modular, it should also be scalable - to gigantic proportions - 200b isk pos that starts out with a 500m isk POS and a couple modules would be a great isk sink..

I think at some point in the future, rather than making stations destructible and allowing many stations per system - stations could be removed altogether.

A more "grand" POS-only system would be far preferable to the current system that only allows 30b startup capital, sov holding, alliance holding corp owners to run a station.

The currently proposed POS changes aren't nearly as wide reaching as I'd like to see.

.

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-08-24 17:07:37 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Yeah I think as long as the POS is modular, it should also be scalable - to gigantic proportions - 200b isk pos that starts out with a 500m isk POS and a couple modules would be a great isk sink..

I think at some point in the future, rather than making stations destructible and allowing many stations per system - stations could be removed altogether.

A more "grand" POS-only system would be far preferable to the current system that only allows 30b startup capital, sov holding, alliance holding corp owners to run a station.

The currently proposed POS changes aren't nearly as wide reaching as I'd like to see.


I think people would complain allot about outpost destruction or removal when the time comes... but I realy would like to see a POS-Only system...

So, what do you think about this "Construction blocks" concept? Do you think something is missing? or something should be removed?
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-08-24 20:10:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Alx Warlord wrote:
I think people would complain allot about outpost destruction or removal when the time comes... but I realy would like to see a POS-Only system...

So, what do you think about this "Construction blocks" concept? Do you think something is missing? or something should be removed?


Well they are going to be making stations destructible anyhow - and people will still lose the upgrades etc for that. Upon saying that I'd like to see better defensive systems. Instead of controlling a gun or a missile launcher, I'd like them to be a bank of guns/missile launchers that fire 6 at a time kind of thing.

Expense and defense should go up hand in hand imo.

My suggestion is this - from my own thread that others pointed out - create some isk sinks.

My idea was similar to yours with the exception of the contstruction blocks. It had more to do with everything being modular.

- . Have a base structure which gave PG/CPU, more of this base structure could be added on, but there are scaling fees required at the time of connection of upgrades - but they can be added in an infinitely scalable way - allowing for large alliances to create huge starbases (100b+) which act as their version of a city for the alliance to use. VFK for goons might be a good example.

- . Modules could be added in a scalable way.

A plain example - My starbase has a market module, but it's only level 1, and allows no taxes to be collected from market transactions, perhaps I add a 2nd market module. At the time of connection I need to pay 1b isk (cash money, not resources - thus the isk sink) to add the 2nd module, and it only allows a 1-2% tax on market transactions.

- . Low barrier to entry for small corps - refineries, offices, repair, storage, labs and factories - these should be able to be added to the POS at low levels for reasonably similar prices as the current prices are.

- . All current station services transfer to POS modules. Remove stations and replace all NPC stations with equivalent POS.

This all doesn't have to be done at once by CCP obviously, it would need to change over time - there's a lot of work there.

1. Lots of advantages to all this - it gives CCP *1* structure to develop instead of the current 2.
2. Stations become destructible.
3. POS become modular and far more scalable.
4. A large ISK sink when the POS is destroyed.

I'm more interested in those 4 points becoming a reality than any given specific module or system - the details will get messed with by CCP anyhow, so an open mind to the specifics is required.

From my perspective I'm interested in being able to START a corp anywhere and be self sufficient - even if the POS has no great bells and whistles. As a miner in a small corp you are often being held hostage by larger alliances who own the local stations to refine at. If they decide they can't really justify your existence in their station - you have zero alternatives.
(This doesn't really effect me anymore, as I have a rorq but this is the kind of thing CCP has overlooked for a long time).

.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#33 - 2012-08-24 21:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
well ive been playing about with a hex form of a modular POS system to see how 'interesting' you could make it.

tbh ive made this with the initial idea of a pos with a top and bottom... and approx 6-8 levels that have the option of being expanded with various modules and connection parts.

of course this is very low polygon count but the idea is the modular parts are based on a hex template. that doesnt mean it HAS to be hex shaped.. but it has to fit in some form into a hex grid, be it a single hex, or multiples.

the picture has a top layer being the top of the pos with various random details.. then under that a subcapital docking level that would hold 100 ships.
after that its various shaped mods and connectors. some allowing modules to be placed on top and below. dependant on how many expandable faces it has.

the max expandable module has 8 sides, 6 around the sides and above/below.

hope u like!
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-08-25 06:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
well ive been playing about with a hex form of a modular POS system to see how 'interesting' you could make it.

tbh ive made this with the initial idea of a pos with a top and bottom... and approx 6-8 levels that have the option of being expanded with various modules and connection parts.

of course this is very low polygon count but the idea is the modular parts are based on a hex template. that doesnt mean it HAS to be hex shaped.. but it has to fit in some form into a hex grid, be it a single hex, or multiples.

the picture has a top layer being the top of the pos with various random details.. then under that a subcapital docking level that would hold 100 ships.
after that its various shaped mods and connectors. some allowing modules to be placed on top and below. dependant on how many expandable faces it has.

the max expandable module has 8 sides, 6 around the sides and above/below.

hope u like!


I love this, but please keep in mind realistically - ccp will do their own thing. The concept however, is awesome.

I'd love to see them far more scalable, configurable and still capable of housing a small corp, a mining corp, a trade corp or a large alliance.

Not sure if it has a scalable module system whether the visual of the station itself would show what kind of refinery modules are installed, or factories, or perhaps just a basic showing that there IS a factory and you have to dock to see how good the factories might be.

.

Tibearious
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-08-25 06:41:48 UTC
My two bits for POS defensive weapon systems. Currently POS defenses are very stupid and are just there to buy you time to make popcorn before the attacking fleet light show begins.

Battle computers with upgraded combat logic, similar to how lvl 4's are different from incursions or sleeper sites.

As a counter to over arming an automated death machine, the POS has a bandwidth limit, similar to drones. It can only effectively coordinate X amount of weapon systems by itself, add player POS gunners to the mix to improve the stations performance.

I also keep playing with the idea of being able to knock out, in-cap if you will, sections of the station in order peel the onion of defenses and capture the POS if you so choose. Of course I also like the idea of overloading the reactor for an old school dooms day smart bomb explosion that destroys the POS and what ever else that can't survive the hit.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#36 - 2012-08-25 11:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
heres an idea to help with the idea of not having a POS shield anymore. many people have issues cause they believe it'll create POS docking games with some form of subcap docking mod and no shield.

add a mechanic to eve whereby 1 item in space can mask anothers signature. this is entirely dependent on the 2 tiems having a shared property being within a certain ratio. If they are, the smaller signature is masked and the ship disappears off other peoples overviews. concurrently of course if the ships signature is masked, then the ship in question cannot target things itself due to insufficient power to overcome the external interference caused by close proximity to an overly huge object.

this was a brainstormed idea that came up in another thread, if you apply it to POS's then ships wouldnt be able to lock and fire on ships undocking. it could also be added to stations to stop docking games too (if so desired - cue the tears). though bombers wouldnt be affected as bombs are essentially dumb unguided items, so there would still be some docking game interplay.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-08-27 04:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:


the max expandable module has 8 sides, 6 around the sides and above/below.

hope u like!


I really loved this! this is exactly the freedom level that I'm expecting CCP to achieve with the construction block system!!!! You did a good job!!! This looks awesome!!!

Revolution Rising wrote:

Not sure if it has a scalable module system whether the visual of the station itself would show what kind of refinery modules are installed, or factories, or perhaps just a basic showing that there IS a factory and you have to dock to see how good the factories might be.


The best thing that CCP could do is this, make visible every possible change in the Starbase, so people would be able to Show it, and be proud of how it looks... This will Sell a lot better, and people would invest allot just to make their home look better then the neighbors ...


GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:


add a mechanic to eve whereby 1 item in space can mask anothers signature.


This is not too hard to do, as CCP plans to allow Starbases to be anchored everywhere!! so You will only need the
-Starbase Cloak Module: That prevent it or nearby ships to be probed

Also, a good amount of weapons near it would prevent people to camp its entrances....
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-08-29 16:24:00 UTC
would it be a good Idea to allow the Starbases to jump away to escape when under siege?
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#39 - 2012-08-29 16:38:10 UTC
no cause no starbase will ever die

would be better to put a big spool up and cool down timer on them (24h spool up / 24h cool down) so that they can be sieged and not just run away at the sight of a big fleet. Would also be beneficial to have certain mods like the jump drive to become inactive when in reinforced.

Susiqueta Muir
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#40 - 2012-08-30 10:17:52 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:



The question is: why should we prevent single individuals to have big star-bases if they can afford to? Isn't it fair? If he can build and he can feed, he can have it!! although it would be a hard task...


I personally look forward to the day when Chribba launches The Veld-star".. :)