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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#421 - 2011-10-13 20:32:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


If they can't do anything, why are you out there in the first place?



Hiding.


Log off? Same goal achieved, but you're now 100% safe.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#422 - 2011-10-13 20:34:15 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:


Log off? Same goal achieved, but you're now 100% safe.


Cant stalk the foolish if I log off.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#423 - 2011-10-13 20:37:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


Log off? Same goal achieved, but you're now 100% safe.


Cant stalk the foolish if I log off.


But you can't stalk the foolish while you're cloaked either, since a cloaked ship can't do anything....

oh wait.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#424 - 2011-10-13 20:40:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


If they can't do anything, why are you out there in the first place?



Hiding.
I laughed. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#425 - 2011-10-13 20:40:47 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


Log off? Same goal achieved, but you're now 100% safe.


Cant stalk the foolish if I log off.


But you can't stalk the foolish while you're cloaked either, since a cloaked ship can't do anything....

oh wait.


Correct, I cannot hurt you in any way while I am cloaked.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#426 - 2011-10-13 20:42:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


Log off? Same goal achieved, but you're now 100% safe.


Cant stalk the foolish if I log off.


But you can't stalk the foolish while you're cloaked either, since a cloaked ship can't do anything....

oh wait.


Correct, I cannot hurt you in any way while I am cloaked.


So if you can't do anything, log off.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#427 - 2011-10-13 20:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Renan Ruivo wrote:


So if you can't do anything, log off.


Can't play eve if I log off silly. Just because I am cloaked and cant hurt you in any way or turn on anything while my cloak is active doesn't mean I am not doing something.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#428 - 2011-10-13 20:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


So if you can't do anything, log off.


Can't play eve if I log off silly. Just because I am cloaked and cant hurt you in any way or turn on anything while my cloak is active doesn't mean I am not doing something.


Sweet ninja edit ^^

So according to you, now, you can do something while cloaked

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#429 - 2011-10-13 20:55:55 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Want to hear another failed argument from the other side? They want cloaked ships to remain 100% detection proof, but are also unable to explain how that is balanced with the rest of the game.
That's their job.

It's balanced for the same reason that Hulks extracting Veldspar with their mining lasers is balanced.

The difference is that the cloak's job is being ruined by an overly powerful intel tool that ignores the protection the cloak is meant to provide. Cloaks are not the problem — they never were. The problem is that people see them anyway and are afraid of the monsters their own minds conjure up from this piece of information.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#430 - 2011-10-13 20:57:09 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:


So if you can't do anything, log off.


Can't play eve if I log off silly. Just because I am cloaked and cant hurt you in any way or turn on anything while my cloak is active doesn't mean I am not doing something.


Sweet ninja edit ^^

So according to you, now, you can do something while cloaked


Only if that something doesn't involve turning on any mods or interacting with anything or getting within 2500m of anything.

Unfortunatly even though I am invisible you still know I am there which kinda spoils the whole covert part of the covert ops cloak.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#431 - 2011-10-13 20:57:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Because each side keeps failing to present valid arguments to the other?
No. Because one side is immune to valid arguments because they want to remove cloaking but don't want to come out and say it (because they are unable to explain why such a change should happen).

No-one asked for cloakies to be removed. Period.

The request is for non-active cloakies to be able to be located. You know that, I know that.

You're just trolling.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#432 - 2011-10-13 20:59:26 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
No-one asked for cloakies to be removed.
Yes they did. That is the result of the suggestions they provide.
Quote:
The request is for non-active cloakies to be able to be located.
…for no adequately explained or even remotely useful reason whatsoever.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#433 - 2011-10-13 21:04:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
No-one asked for cloakies to be removed.
Yes they did. That is the result of the suggestions they provide.
Quote:
The request is for non-active cloakies to be able to be located.
…for no adequately explained or even remotely useful reason whatsoever.

Then I state that either do not or never have ratted or mined in 0.0. Ever.

You've thought of a single line of attack and now want to quote out this topic forever to justify your one clever line. You're a troll.

gtfo

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#434 - 2011-10-13 21:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Tippia wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Want to hear another failed argument from the other side? They want cloaked ships to remain 100% detection proof, but are also unable to explain how that is balanced with the rest of the game.
That's their job.

It's balanced for the same reason that Hulks extracting Veldspar with their mining lasers is balanced.

The difference is that the cloak's job is being ruined by an overly powerful intel tool that ignores the protection the cloak is meant to provide. Cloaks are not the problem — they never were. The problem is that people see them anyway and are afraid of the monsters their own minds conjure up from this piece of information.


So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?

You are telling me that a tool that would make any semi-competent cloak pilot laugh while their adversary clumsily tries to locate him, would be the same as removing cloak alltogether and make your job difficult enough to the point of rage-quit?

PS: Btw i'm not talking about any specific suggestion here since i haven't bothered to check any of them.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#435 - 2011-10-13 21:10:37 UTC
Lately I realized the big fix for AFK cloaking.


All that has to be done is to AFK Cloak the bot/RMT operations to the point where all of them are brought to a standstill.

This creates a "buttered cat" effect with CCP. Since CCP does so little to get rid of the BOTS/RMT element, therefore so much will proportionely have to be done about AFK Cloaking.




* Buttered cat theory: Buttered toast always lands on the buttered side. A cat always lands on its feet. If you butter a cat, it cannot land. If CCP cannot stop botting/RMT, but will not stop AFK Cloaking either, we already have a buttered cat. But trying to influence the balance in one way will reveal how much energy is spent maintaining the other way.

It might end up being a contest of who can rage the hardest and lobby CCP the most.

(or what alliance the CSM members are in).

I think cloaking is working as intended, but I don't think that CCP completely ignores the botting/RMT issue either. Not everything works out the way we want them to.

In the end, it's nice to have a game to play and a bottle of rum to get puking drunk on while playing it.





Bring back DEEEEP Space!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#436 - 2011-10-13 21:11:08 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:


So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?



The life of a ratting bot is the true 100% safe trade closely followed by a none bot ratter who is safe so long as they are paying attention to local.

The only way a cloaker can be 100% safe is if they never uncloak in which case they cannot hurt anyone anyway. A fix for cloaking is not needed because there is nothing to fix.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#437 - 2011-10-13 21:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
The Apostle wrote:
Then I state that either do not or never have ratted or mined in 0.0. Ever.
Like I said: for no adequately explained or even remotely useful reason whatsoever. Just because you can't think of a proper argument doesn't make me a troll… quite the opposite in fact.
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?
Seeing as how the safety is not absolute, yes.
Quote:
You are telling me that a tool that would make any semi-competent cloak pilot laugh while their adversary clumsily tries to locate him, would be the same as removing cloak alltogether and make your job difficult enough to the point of rage-quit?
No. I'm saying that all the “solutions” to “AFK cloaking” are complete gutshots to cloaking — intentional or not, they're swinging wild and not hitting what they're (allegedly) aiming for and instead hurt what they (equally allegedly) want to keep. They also refuse to acknowledge some very simple fixes that would solve their supposed issue, often with such intensity that it is hard not to suspect that the supposed issue is not what they actually want to see solved…
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#438 - 2011-10-13 21:28:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?
Seeing as how the safety is not absolute, yes.

I cannot find you no matter how skilled i am, or what tools i employ. As long as you are cloaked, you are safe from me. If you cannot be found and uncloaked by an action that i start and i perform, you are safer then you should be.
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
You are telling me that a tool that would make any semi-competent cloak pilot laugh while their adversary clumsily tries to locate him, would be the same as removing cloak alltogether and make your job difficult enough to the point of rage-quit?
No. I'm saying that all the “solutions” to “AFK cloaking” are complete gutshots to cloaking — intentional or not, they're swinging wild and not hitting what they're (allegedly) aiming for. They also refuse to acknowledge some very simple fixes that would solve their supposed issue, often with such intensity that it is hard not to suspect that the supposed issue is not what they actually want to see solved…


That i can agree with, considering solutions like "Cloak fuel" or "Uncloak-pulse POS module". However i disagree when considering solutions like T2 probe that drops you within 10 to 30km from the cloaked ship, once a 100% result is achieved.

All you have to do is move. And laugh. Now the tools are there, and your adversary has no excuses.


As long as you can move your ship, hit your directional scan, move around anomalies at will, warp to celestial bodies, come within 5km from your target and casually waiting for the moment to decloak at your own leisure, you are doing something. You are doing something, completely safe from any action your adversary might take. There is no counter. The only limitation you have is your own hability at not screwing up. You are 100% effective while not even 80b titans are 100% effective at their job.

And that, is wrong.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#439 - 2011-10-13 21:34:06 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?
Seeing as how the safety is not absolute, yes.

I cannot find you no matter how skilled i am, or what tools i employ. As long as you are cloaked, you are safe from me. If you cannot be found and uncloaked by an action that i start and i perform, you are safer then you should be.


While cloaked Tippia cannot do anything to harm you so you are perfectly safe too.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#440 - 2011-10-13 21:38:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So the cloak is the only profession in this game that can be perfomed with absolute safety instead of just very-high safety? That seems right to you?
Seeing as how the safety is not absolute, yes.

I cannot find you no matter how skilled i am, or what tools i employ. As long as you are cloaked, you are safe from me. If you cannot be found and uncloaked by an action that i start and i perform, you are safer then you should be.


While cloaked Tippia cannot do anything to harm you so you are perfectly safe too.


I don't care that she can't do anything to me while cloaked directly. I care that what she can do to me when uncloaked, could only be done by doing something while previoulsy cloaked. So whatever she does while uncloaked is inherently dependant upon things she does while cloaked. Therefore, she can do something while cloaked.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.