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August 23 update: A small article about auditing + 3rd party services + collateral holding

Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1 - 2012-08-15 23:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
As some SCC Lounge participants know, I am currently updating my website, Vahrokh.com.

Among the material I am writing right now, is a small-ish 2 pages article about auditing, how tos and gotcha.
In fact, I found out how it's funny how after 3 years of auditing, collateral holding and BPO researching I never created a page to even describe what I do.

Since more than 70 percent of my audits are made for the MD community, I feel obliged to submit it for peer review.

Please take note that the stuff will ultimately end up being linked in my signature as my "job" so it is kind of centered about what I do, it's not a full general text. It should still be a decent and "modern" article to point at to the new players joining EvE.

The text is located here.

Please check the end of the thread out for updates and new links.
Theangryhobo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-08-16 00:27:15 UTC
First.

Nice article. Good reading.

.

Elmo Zumwalt
Elmo's Roughnecks
#3 - 2012-08-16 00:52:57 UTC
Funny, I take the Audit portion of the uniform CPA exam on Monday.
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#4 - 2012-08-16 01:41:09 UTC
A well written and informative piece VV, thank you for this. Of particular import in my opinion is page two which anyone thinking of publishing a bond or IPO offer should read, especially topic number one. All my bonds were written days or weeks prior to publishing and in some cases a rough draft was provided to interested parties prior to public posting in an effort to provide a polished prospectus.

I would also add for us in MD that how you compose yourself in your thread against inevitable criticisms, flames and even compliments goes a long way in projecting assurance that you are willing to see the bond through to the end through possible hardships that may come up. Bringing a professional manner to a bond can win through some criticisms and flames that may otherwise burn a prospectus before it launches.

Again, great work Vaerah

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards

Samroski
Middle-Earth
#5 - 2012-08-16 06:02:30 UTC
Thanks for the article VV. Inspiring in a sense, especially as all the other auditors are not active.

What is the usual auditing fee? How much time do you spend on average doing an audit? Do you get audits for multiple accounts (as most respectable Eve players have more than one)?

Any colour you like.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#6 - 2012-08-16 07:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
First of all thank you a lot for the positive feedback! Rykker <3

Next I am going to write another little article about collateral holding and so on.


Samroski wrote:
Thanks for the article VV. Inspiring in a sense, especially as all the other auditors are not active.

What is the usual auditing fee? How much time do you spend on average doing an audit? Do you get audits for multiple accounts (as most respectable Eve players have more than one)?



The auditing fee is variable. It depends on the number of auditee posts, on how many accounts he got and on the kind of audit required and on other variables, including the data gathering time. The same performance audit done on a guy flipping 20 orders a day will involve different programs and work and multiple sessions a day compared to a guy flips 2000 orders a day.

If there are some additional documents (estimating T2 BPOs profitability, checking T3 profitability) it changes again.
If there are alts to park somewhere and manage a corp, it changes again.
Basically there's no "one size fits all".

The time spent: from some hours to 4 weeks. Of course a 4 weeks audit is going to cost somewhat more than a 10 hours standard one.

About multiple accounts: as described in the linked article, I don't consider it a valid audit unless all the accounts full APIs are provided. It's possible to game the "system" as is, let's reduce the unknowns as much as possible.

Luckily enough, there are exceptionally few guys able to hide specific transactions and to control their forum posting for years and make it impossible to detect that not all the alts APIs were provided.

Cross checking is a major task (something Mme Pinkerton excels at btw), it's why it's a deciding factor in calculating auditing fees.
JohnathanGalt
Northern Sky Industries
#7 - 2012-08-16 12:35:55 UTC
Good writeup VV. I know when I was considering using your services for my small bond, It would have been great to have this. It would have helped me understand the process when I was coming in as a potential investee. Although I did not end up getting an audit, I still consider it a valuable service, especially for someone looking to raise significant capital or with a complex business plan.
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#8 - 2012-08-17 05:26:40 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Samroski wrote:
Thanks for the article VV. Inspiring in a sense, especially as all the other auditors are not active.
What is the usual auditing fee? How much time do you spend on average doing an audit? Do you get audits for multiple accounts (as most respectable Eve players have more than one)?


The auditing fee is variable. It depends on the number of auditee posts, on how many accounts he got and on the kind of audit required and on other variables, including the data gathering time. The same performance audit done on a guy flipping 20 orders a day will involve different programs and work and multiple sessions a day compared to a guy flips 2000 orders a day.

Tbh I was looking for as estimate like 50m to 200m, depending on the factors you've listed. Personally, I would not want to get into auditing for anything less than 100m per audit. One could even have a formula to calculate the estimate. Not that I'm likely to start auditing...

Can you maybe give us a range of how much you've charged for audits in the past?

Any colour you like.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#9 - 2012-08-17 07:17:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Samroski wrote:

Tbh I was looking for as estimate like 50m to 200m, depending on the factors you've listed. Personally, I would not want to get into auditing for anything less than 100m per audit. One could even have a formula to calculate the estimate. Not that I'm likely to start auditing...

Can you maybe give us a range of how much you've charged for audits in the past?


See you uncover an interesting topic.

One of the most important factors that make auditors so rare is that it's financially not worth it.
There's no patch that introduces an Auditing Barge or something, so the prices stay the same.
Plus audits (expecially the hard ones) tend to be requested by those who lack the trust of the community, which often it means it's relatively new players with little money. It's not really feasible to demand 1B from a guy trying to start his first 1B bond after all.

So in the past I would ask from 30M to 100M but that's 10 hours of work. Now, take the worst EvE profession. It's probably something very AFK and doable by everybody yet it'll net more than 3M per hour.
Auditing puts you on the line all the time, a single mistake and people will flame you for years and there's always people suspecting you to be a scammer in league with the investee...

Lots of flame retardant required, lots of in game experience and all of this for so little. Logical consequence is, very few will ever care to become auditor or they only do it while 30M are a big sum for them.

As of now I don't bother for less than 100M for a simple audit, I can make more simply by opening my never ending Jita BPCs can and putting 2 BPCs for sale.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#10 - 2012-08-20 18:05:44 UTC
I added a new article about Third Party Services.

I put the names of the guys I know and a standard procedure, if you find errors, inaccuracies or new names please feel free to suggest them.

Parris Colidi
Imperial Navy Research
#11 - 2012-08-22 13:00:27 UTC
Very nice write ups..

really gives an insight into the Auditors profession..
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#12 - 2012-08-22 16:08:07 UTC
Nit: remove the periods at the end of known third-party characters; they are not sentences. This is also because of the tendency of Eve corporations and alliances to re-form using a DOT at the end of their tickers and names; I suspect one day CCP will permit periods in character names.

MDD
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#13 - 2012-08-22 22:30:00 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Nit: remove the periods at the end of known third-party characters; they are not sentences. This is also because of the tendency of Eve corporations and alliances to re-form using a DOT at the end of their tickers and names; I suspect one day CCP will permit periods in character names.

MDD


Thank you for the feedback, I have edited the dots out.





I have added a new article: Collateral Holding