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Which T3?

Author
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-08-21 21:31:07 UTC
Today I saw a video of someone who downed ~100 Tengus in a row and then some with a Loki. This made me consider getting a T3 to PvP with.

I have heard a lot of good things about Tengus, but I don't know about it after watching ~100 of them get blown up in order by 1 Loki. So, which T3 cruiser would be most effective in solo, high DPS, high efficiency PvP for someone with max skills for it?

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#2 - 2012-08-21 22:07:46 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Today I saw a video of someone who downed ~100 Tengus in a row and then some with a Loki. This made me consider getting a T3 to PvP with.

I have heard a lot of good things about Tengus, but I don't know about it after watching ~100 of them get blown up in order by 1 Loki. So, which T3 cruiser would be most effective in solo, high DPS, high efficiency PvP for someone with max skills for it?


Watching a video is good and all, but you have to remember that all the waiting/failures have been edited away so you're only left with the fights they win. Unless you have billions to throw around it might be a good idea to get a feel for what you want to do in pvp. It might sound obvious but T3's aren't exactly an I-Win button in themselves. A lot who fly those expensive ships tend to use offgrid boosters and pirate implants for the extra boost in damage/survivability.

The T3 all exceed in different ways, and there's always variations on every ship. I'm no expert on T3's, frankly I dislike them being added to the game, but depending on if you have the skills already Sisi might be a good place to try them out without loosing half a billion on the first gatecamp.
Kale Eledar
Venerated Industries
#3 - 2012-08-21 23:05:09 UTC
You'd be surprised what you can accomplish flying the same ship over and over. Being very good at a ship type is a noble goal. That said, location, location, location.
Each T3 has a great counter to its common fits. I am by no means a leet peeveepeee god. That said, each obviously complements a particular area.

Proteus: best cloaky, shines in WH space pvp, best buffer (usually)
Legion: WH, exploration, incursion, needs some work but not awful
Tengu: Best pve, easiest to fly, ubiquitous
Loki: nice webs, pretty decent pvp, wild card tank type

First come smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#4 - 2012-08-21 23:31:48 UTC
Generally, PVP vids are less about how awesome the pvper is and more about how dumb his targets are so what you mostly see is a compilation of running into idiots. Sure, T3s can be awesome in pvp but don't think that it always works like that, also most "solo" vids you see are actually backed by gang links/RR/Falcon backup.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-08-22 00:20:59 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Generally, PVP vids are less about how awesome the pvper is and more about how dumb his targets are so what you mostly see is a compilation of running into idiots. Sure, T3s can be awesome in pvp but don't think that it always works like that, also most "solo" vids you see are actually backed by gang links/RR/Falcon backup.


Yes, in the video he had shown getting killed twice, once by a Vindi and Rattle, and he got blobbed the second time. He was mostly warping into nullsec complexes and hammering the people running them, and I believe his chat windows indicated he was talking to his OGB a few times.

Other than that, no other "on grid" allies were with him. Its not I want to "be like that" but more want to get into a specific T3 to try out in PvP, as my income would allow be to replace a lost T3 and mods in 1-2 days. I'm almost to the "I only log in to kill people!" point in EVE...

Also, from what you said Kale Eledar, looks like I would enjoy the Proteus and Loki the best. Thanks.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

DeepLowDocker
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-22 01:49:06 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
[quote=Vilnius Zar] He was mostly warping into nullsec complexes and hammering the people running them, and I believe his chat windows indicated he was talking to his OGB a few times.


That says all. The rats' dps adds to his mediocre one and he has easy kills this way. Normally he would not be able to go through Tengu's active tank which is a preferred one when ratting. Also in low-sec people use totally different, usually passive Tengu fits for PvP.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-08-22 06:16:57 UTC
100mn tengu is by far the best solo.
proteus and loki are both excellent gang/fleet ships. loki is better than prot solo because it can nano.

legion sucks.

as a note, if youre asking this, you probably arent ready to pvp in a t3.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-22 09:51:28 UTC
just depends what kind of PvP you want to do.

Jumping PvE'rs the loki and the protheus are very good, in small leets Tengu's are scarry.


any PvP fitted type ship can destroy a PvE fitted ship o the same type.

That is the biggest reason he can down those Tengu's, not fitted or pvp and engaged with NPC's.

Tells you more about the pilots of the Tengu than the Tengu it self.

Pilot is:

1) totaly new and not ready to fly a T3 ship.

2) more likely, loaded with isk, so not paying attention and busy with other stuff that gave the assilant the oppertunity to jump him.

Noisrevbus
#9 - 2012-08-22 13:43:19 UTC
I've made several more comprehensive posts on the topic before, but if we fokus quite strictly on solo-small PvP in here:

100mn setups could affectionately be referred to as "new nano". For many intents and purposes they are, and that includes the relevant bit in this topic. Old school nano had this issue where overblown velocity would cause you to impose more tracking issues upon yourself. Missiles were popular in that element, even if many missile-platforms didn't have as appealing speed.

The reason you see alot of, specificly 100mn, missile ships is largely due to the same reason. 100mn is more difficult to control on a fine-tuned level so missiles become appealing. That's why you see alot of Tengus.

The HAM-brick Legion was also somewhat popular a while back, since it's still missiles so you don't have any personally incurred tracking issues, but as it only get a bonus to HAM and HAM are undoubtedly shorter than HML that is more uncommon. It's definately functional though if you want to do something a bit more exotic yet still powerful.

The appeal in the Proteus and Loki lie in the EW-subystems rather than the weapon system. Since there can be tracking issues on those ships 100mn setups on them are less appealing and by extension that also make them less appealing for solo-small that involve alot of nano-esque kiting tactics. Instead they have the ability to combine tackling bonuses with tanks (with a small wink to the Legion here who can combine tank with EW as well, but give up weapons when doing so).

That make them more appealing in support-roles, which naturally make them more appealing when you have a few more ships. They become heavy Recons of sorts, appealing in that scale of gameplay (when Recons are less reliable, yet where it's still worth the ISK-investment, as opposed to attrition-concerns for the specialist role).

That does not mean they can't be run solo, simply that they are more prone to setup builds built around their tackle rather than 100mn and be flown solo in settings that are less dependent upon nano roaming tactics (in lowsec, in wormholes etc). They can be 100mn fit but they can also equally be MWD-burst, rush or dualpropped, like most other armor-ships. Using the propmods to get to-from rather than kiting around, and relying on superior tackle, tanks and firepower to augment that.
Warlord Shat
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-08-22 15:53:43 UTC
100mn Tengu amazing

Legion gets more effective dps in fleet fights

Protues has massive tank and insane paper DPS

Loki is very good in alot of situations, Its the best for killing ratting tengus because you can choose a damage type and have a neut, its also vital in armour fleets because of the long range webs, you can shield tank it but you need to get rid of the web bonus
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#11 - 2012-08-26 18:44:48 UTC
Warlord Shat wrote:
100mn Tengu overpowered


Fixed... yeah T3 PvP you want to go Loki (if its cloaky fit its called a CLoki Smile) or 100mn Tengu (Buffer, NOT ACTIVE those ones always get blown up)

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-08-27 00:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Lugia3 wrote:
Today I saw a video of someone who downed ~100 Tengus in a row and then some with a Loki. This made me consider getting a T3 to PvP with.

I have heard a lot of good things about Tengus, but I don't know about it after watching ~100 of them get blown up in order by 1 Loki. So, which T3 cruiser would be most effective in solo, high DPS, high efficiency PvP for someone with max skills for it?



Because Tengu is a pure monster with some pimp and if you add combat boosters, implants+ booster alt it gets even better but then you need to realise the natural Tengu predator is Loki and Loki natural Predator is Proteus witch in turn is a very good prey for Legions (more or less on this last one because it's more of a fight about tank)

You can't go wrong training both caldari and minmatar cruiser at 5 and train both T3 ships subs at 5, and the time you get both is a little 3 months + training but it's hell worthy (only cruiser 5+strategic +sub skills, but you need all other related skills too).
Always think TOP skills, witch means whatever skill needed or used with those ships SHOULD be 5. Doesn't mean you can't use them with lower skills but believe me or not, the difference is absolutely huge.

brb