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Serious Newbie Question - Does Eve Really Want New Players?

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Wolf Kruol
1st Tikiona Lancers
Citizen's Star Republic
#101 - 2012-08-21 16:13:20 UTC
Eve will ether make you strong or it will break you. This all depends on how strong a character you are. Weak will die and the strong will survive.


Smile

Wolf

“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”
Joe Hinken
Cetan Consortium
#102 - 2012-08-21 16:15:44 UTC
Wolf Kruol wrote:
Eve will ether make you strong or it will break you.

QFT

Brick Royl > bad timing the isk is deflating fatser then a baloon in a cactus shop
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-08-21 16:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Othran wrote:
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
And, of course, once a member leaves, they retain access to the vast majority of the resources.


The problem with a lot of your members is that they never leave, nor do they go on to teach/guide/FC within Eve-Uni.

So why are they still there - in some cases years from when they were allegedly noobs?

You'd have a lot more credibility if you forced some of your members to "graduate" to another corp after a maximum of one year.


There are essential newbies who have been playing the game a long time (casual players with superficial knowledge/skills). Let them play their way, whom or what does it hurt?

I'd rather see someone who was self-motivated to take on more than be booted due to an arbitrary deadline.


Fake edit for clarification.
Othran
Route One
#104 - 2012-08-21 16:22:26 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Othran wrote:
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
And, of course, once a member leaves, they retain access to the vast majority of the resources.


The problem with a lot of your members is that they never leave, nor do they go on to teach/guide/FC within Eve-Uni.

So why are they still there - in some cases years from when they were allegedly noobs?

You'd have a lot more credibility if you forced some of your members to "graduate" to another corp after a maximum of one year.


There are newbies who have been playing the game a long time. Let them play their way, whom or what does it hurt?
I'd rather see someone who was self-motivated to take on more than be booted due to an arbitrary deadline.






There's a fair few people in there who simply use Eve-Uni to avoid the consequences of their own actions. Wardec shields (as pioneered by Eve-Uni) still protect them.

I find it pretty hard to believe that most of Eve-Uni members are not alts.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-08-21 16:25:16 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
The problem there is that you cant tell for certain if that newbie who wants to join is a newbie, or an alt who'd just waiting for the opportunity to steal/awox/whatever.

We've spent eight years now working out how to deal with these, and unfortunately, none of the solutions are that simple.


Sarton Wells wrote:
While eve university is a good place to learn there's not really much that you can't learn from someplace else. Personally I've learned how to survive gate camps and ganks/baits/roams in low sec through trial and error and various sites. Sure with eve uni it would've been quicker but you don't have to graduate from there to be able to enjoy the game.
I entirely agree. It depends however if you have (almost) unlimited patience, and someone to help out and point you in the right direction. What we provide in E-UNI is a bit of a 'leg up', some other people to learn with/from, and an open community, along with the years of experience, guides, classes and other stuff which is all public.

And, of course, once a member leaves, they retain access to the vast majority of the resources.


The EVE Uni wiki (http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page) is a goldmine. I'm mainly an industry/mining guy, and I learned things about PVP fitting and combat from that wiki that it would have taken me ages (and much ISK in the way of lost ships) to learn on my own. The podcasts, videos, and articles are generally very well done.

The whole "is a new toon really a noob" problem is more pronounced in EVE than elsewhere due to the prevalence of alts in the game, but I think EVE Uni handles it about as well as they can. (I've never understood the appeal of awoxing, but some people were just born to be d-bags, I guess.)

About the "graduation" issue: it's hard to leave a corp that cares what happens to you and is full of helpful and knowledgable players. That's rare in EVE, and may explain why even experienced players are loath to leave. I'm not even sure it's a problem -- having "upperclassmen" in the corp helps the real noobs in more ways than simply in training. (During war, for example, it can help to have a high-skill "big brother" to run to your aid in a fight.) And EVE Uni is still a corp and has a high overhead; more experienced players bring in more ISK than noobs.
Othran
Route One
#106 - 2012-08-21 16:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Idris Helion wrote:

About the "graduation" issue: it's hard to leave a corp that cares what happens to you and is full of helpful and knowledgable players. That's rare in EVE, and may explain why even experienced players are loath to leave. I'm not even sure it's a problem -- having "upperclassmen" in the corp helps the real noobs in more ways than simply in training. (During war, for example, it can help to have a high-skill "big brother" to run to your aid in a fight.) And EVE Uni is still a corp and has a high overhead; more experienced players bring in more ISK than noobs.


I understand that but Eve-Uni is supposed to be training noobs. Its not supposed to be sheltering long-term alts from the consequences of their behaviour (for example - scamming) in Eve.

However if "graduation" was enforced - even into a friendly corp - then Eve-Uni wouldn't have the "clout" it has with Eve devs simply because it'd be smaller.

Make your own minds up. I think Eve-Uni was a great idea. I don't think the current incarnation of Eve-Uni follows that idea.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#107 - 2012-08-21 16:32:26 UTC
Othran wrote:
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Idris Helion wrote:
It's just too bad that more corps don't follow EVE Uni's philosophy towards noobs.
And, of course, once a member leaves, they retain access to the vast majority of the resources.


The problem with a lot of your members is that they never leave, nor do they go on to teach/guide/FC within Eve-Uni.

So why are they still there - in some cases years from when they were allegedly noobs?

You'd have a lot more credibility if you forced some of your members to "graduate" to another corp after a maximum of one year.


Because they become teachers, join the Navy or they actually have grown to enjoy playing the game with the people of Eve uni.

Forced graduations sound moronic and you should feel bad.




To OP.

The start of Eve is complete bull, and is one of the many things CCP is constantly working to improve/make more accessible for the newer generation of players.

What you need to do is find yourself a group of players that can support your interests, if you're happy with the group of player's you're with perhaps you could convince them to merge with another alliance/corp, or you could start recruiting/hiring pvp pilots to do the fighting for you.

Another thing you and your corp could do is move to Null as renters, you make more isk and it's safer than Highsec when you're war decced.

And lastly if you don't want to join Eve-uni, which I understand, they're recruitment policy is totally broken, especially in my TZ when there's never a recruiter on, I digress, you should find yourself a mentor, someone you trust who can keep you under their wing for the first few months of Eve.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-08-21 16:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Othran wrote:



There's a fair few people in there who simply use Eve-Uni to avoid the consequences of their own actions. Wardec shields (as pioneered by Eve-Uni) still protect them.

I find it pretty hard to believe that most of Eve-Uni members are not alts.


Both accounts sound reasonably factual but how is it any less of a legitimate way to play the Sandbox?
ETA: This is obviously an off-topic discussion.

And, for the record, I never attended E-Uni, I only wish I had, in retrospect. I've come across some smart cookies (Indy & PvPers) in-game who obtained their footing there. Likewise, there are equally capable people who did not.

The main reason I recommend organized and focused corps such as this is that they are organized and focused. These are qualities new players usually benefit from.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-08-21 16:33:46 UTC
Wolf Kruol wrote:
Eve will ether make you strong or it will break you


omg does the real world have surprises for you. Blink
Othran
Route One
#110 - 2012-08-21 16:43:36 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Othran wrote:



There's a fair few people in there who simply use Eve-Uni to avoid the consequences of their own actions. Wardec shields (as pioneered by Eve-Uni) still protect them.

I find it pretty hard to believe that most of Eve-Uni members are not alts.


Both accounts sound reasonably factual but how is it any less of a legitimate way to play the Sandbox?
ETA: This is obviously an off-topic discussion.

And, for the record, I never attended E-Uni, I only wish I had, in retrospect. I've have come across some smart cookies (Indy & PvPers) in-game who obtained their footing there. Likewise, there are equally capable people who did not.

The main reason I recommend organized and focused corps such as this is that they are organized and focused. These are qualities new players usually benefit from.



I don't actually dislike Eve-Uni, its just that in recent years I'm not that sure what they have brought to the game (eg wardec shields, which had anyone else done it would have resulted in a ban) has actually improved Eve. It certainly used to but now I wonder if the membership numbers are just a platform for CSM membership.

Cynical certainly, make your own minds up. Its a good corp for noobs, its also a great corp for alt scammers.
Wolf Kruol
1st Tikiona Lancers
Citizen's Star Republic
#111 - 2012-08-21 16:59:58 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Wolf Kruol wrote:
Eve will ether make you strong or it will break you


omg does the real world have surprises for you. Blink

No **** huh. Big smile

“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”
O'Sheagada
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-08-21 18:30:04 UTC
Just their money broseph
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2012-08-21 19:56:00 UTC
the vast majority of players like newbies what the vast majority DON'T want are newbies coming in and complaining about things that are part of the game, such as the skill training system, and the fact that you can be attacked anywhere.
-
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#114 - 2012-08-21 20:14:37 UTC
Quote:
There are newbies who have been playing the game a long time


Wait! WHAT!!?! Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-08-21 20:28:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
There are newbies who have been playing the game a long time


Wait! WHAT!!?! Smile


Ok, how about "chronically, uninformed people?" I was trying to be polite. Lol
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#116 - 2012-08-21 21:31:36 UTC
Apologies to the OP for going off topic again...

Othran wrote:
There's a fair few people in there who simply use Eve-Uni to avoid the consequences of their own actions. Wardec shields (as pioneered by Eve-Uni) still protect them.

You should come join us in August - we have this new Unified inventory thing now, fancy Minmatar ships, and a new wardec system which means a war costs between 50 and 500M ISK, with no DecShields or alliance hopping to avoid wars.

Case in point, since the start of June, E-UNI has had 13 wars, one of which just went into its eighth week yesterday.

Also, feel free to point out anyone who is 'hiding' in E-UNI to me via EVEmail - we do background checks on our applicants, and aren't some kind of safe harbour for anyone. We may have missed someone, but nobody has mentioned it.

And finally... if you feel like forming your own training corp where people only stay for a limited time before they need to leave, go ahead. I'd be interested to find out how that works out for you.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#117 - 2012-08-21 22:18:52 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
I love the way this discussion is still ongoing despite the fact the OP has probably stopped playing EVE.

In 2011, EVE forums cost employers around the world $2.2 billion in lost worker productivity.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-08-21 22:54:53 UTC
Anslo wrote:
But you're both assuming he WANTS to pvp. Not every damn player wants to.


Well yeah. The assumption is generally made because only a dullard could enjoy the PVE aspects of this game, and mining is well...

mining.
Aster Nightwolf
State War Academy
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-08-22 07:14:02 UTC
Might I suggest the corporation EVE University? It is a great corporation complete with teachers and instructors that have actual classes that go out into space and help you to learn the game mechanics. They also have a mentorship program and can also help fund basic skillbooks. Once you become more adept at the game you can leave with no hard feelings and join the corp of your choice, or you can give back and become a teacher yourself!

When I started the game, Eve University is where I began, and they are a really helpful newbie corp. They have all sorts videos on Youtube as well. You really should check them out before giving up.
Usha Endisil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-08-22 08:22:37 UTC
Just stay in a non player corp in High Sec until you get enough skills to do something else.

And read a lot, there is a lot to learn in this game.

I played for 5 years, gave my toon away and then started with this one. Still mamanged to do it ok. Its a hard game to start and a steep learning curve, if you dont like a challenge, you wont like EvE

Usha