These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Winter] Support Frigates

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sigras
Conglomo
#221 - 2012-08-21 02:40:45 UTC
I feel like everyone complaining in this thread is thinking about how hard it is to kill T2 logistics ships right now and imagining how much harder it will be to kill these things.

What people are forgetting is that these ships do not get the (idk what to even call it) "T2 sig radius" of the logistics ships.

These things are half the size of the logistics cruisers already, slap some shield rigs and a MSE on there and it will be huge.

Also its much easier to get 3-4 muninns at range to alpha strike a frigate than it is to get the 25 or so needed to alpha strike a regular logistics ship
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#222 - 2012-08-21 02:52:24 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's.


We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly.

All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs.


Agreed.
Agnar Volta
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#223 - 2012-08-21 03:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Agnar Volta
Dear Fozzie,

If you really want to test this frigs, give a batch to us and we will put it to test.

I find the concept very appealing, and being part of the entity that uses tech I frigs the most, I think they will bring some special flavour to combat.

Range and speed seams good to me, also the amount of rep. Maybe you should look at the cycle a bit more, because a frig could easily be dead by the time the reps get to them.

This will also give a good use to that 4 high slot in the Attack Frigs, slap a neut in it and they will be the perfect logi killer.

I can see a much more dynamic battlefield with all this options available, not to mention lots of things for new players to do in a fleet besides orbit and press F1.

Thanks for the good work mate. Wish we had you doing this some years ago.

Edit: Do you still have some love for the Rifter? Seams to me that it will be the only frig that wont benefit from reps.
Alara IonStorm
#224 - 2012-08-21 03:53:01 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's.

We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly.

All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs.

I think they need to do one better then that and scrap the penalties all together.

Astronautics that nerf Armor, Electronics that nerf shield. That just shoehorns rigs by tank type. Armor penalties make most Armor Cruisers slower then Shield Canes. No wonder most people fit the Thorax, Hurricane, Harbinger, Brutix, Myrmidon and Rupture with Shield Tanks more often then not. Sig Rad Penalties don't amount to much realistically for Battlecruisers and Battleships in most fights but hurt smaller ships.

Honestly I think plate mass and extender sig is enough without these ships taking a second hit. Removing Rig Penalties would expand what types of ships use rigs and help ships like Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Armor Battleships that suffer the most from them.
Kalla Vera Quiroga
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#225 - 2012-08-21 04:25:27 UTC
I like these new toys.
Gus Machado
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2012-08-21 05:59:49 UTC
frigate logi fleets here i come.Cool
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#227 - 2012-08-21 06:10:41 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs.

Problem is that they are not likely to start making different penalties for rigs within the same group, so has to either make more groups or shuffle rigs around. But the "slapping steel on.." comment made me think.
Q: when does one not want to be in full plate/battle gear?
A: In the sun and/or when its hot.
New penalty option #1: Modifier for the heat damage attribute of all fitted mods. Harder to get rid of excess heat so builds up more quickly ..
New penalty option #2: Modifier for capacitor drain of all fitted mods. Harder to get rid of excess heat so additional power needed to avoid build-up.

@Fozzie: Would love to have comment on feasibility of my first post in this discussion of what might just be the best thing since toast with proper bitter marmalade.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#228 - 2012-08-21 06:19:41 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Removing Rig Penalties would expand what types of ships use rigs and help ships like Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Armor Battleships that suffer the most from them.


Seeing the outrage last time an attempt was made to change rig penalties, this might actually be the best solution (if also the least interesting) because few will object the removal of penalties.

Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#229 - 2012-08-21 06:24:40 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:

Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?


Heh, I actually have several rigging skills at 5. I am totally ok with this.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-08-21 06:32:56 UTC
This is a bit of a tangent question, but does anyone here think that an over-proliferation of logi is going to be a problem? I hear from my nullsec contacts that more and more fleets consist primarily of logi ships (scimis), so would a stacking penalty of some sort on remote repping be a good way to constraint overuse of logi? I mean, the alliance tournament puts a hard limit on logi ships for this reason (boring unkillable stalemate fleets) so perhaps its something that needs to be considered if we're going to see hordes of logi frigates running around.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#231 - 2012-08-21 06:34:52 UTC
Galphii wrote:
This is a bit of a tangent question, but does anyone here think that an over-proliferation of logi is going to be a problem? I hear from my nullsec contacts that more and more fleets consist primarily of logi ships (scimis), so would a stacking penalty of some sort on remote repping be a good way to constraint overuse of logi? I mean, the alliance tournament puts a hard limit on logi ships for this reason (boring unkillable stalemate fleets) so perhaps its something that needs to be considered if we're going to see hordes of logi frigates running around.


I do believe I've heard the suggestion of removing healing in every PVP game I've ever played.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#232 - 2012-08-21 06:44:24 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:

Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?

Yes. Either that or re-balancing Calibration Cost and having the skill lower it with 4-5 being primarily for T2 Rigs. I personally prefer the 20% solution.
Vokradacka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-08-21 07:28:02 UTC
Wtf ...? Slow , short range , 3k EHP frigates are problem for you guys? Seriously ?
JamesCLK
#234 - 2012-08-21 07:32:09 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:

Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?

Yes. Either that or re-balancing Calibration Cost and having the skill lower it with 4-5 being primarily for T2 Rigs. I personally prefer the 20% solution.


Changing drawbacks to reflect the actual use of the individual rig (not the type) is probably a better idea IMHO.

Fair enough that trimarks increase your mass, it's literally welding more armour to your ship (on a % base even).
But isn't it somewhat ridiculous to imply that a rig that optimises the cycle time or repair amount (additional power feeds or additional repair nanite control feeds respectively) gives you the same kind of mass increase that adding tonnes of armour plating does; rather it might increase the PG or CPU use of a repairer. Just my 0.02 ISK.

/off topic?

I love the idea of logistics frigates as a logi pilot myself; flying these frigs is going to be a nice challenge (paper thin, relatively slow, limited range, etc...).
I'm also going to echo the voices calling for armour mods in general to be looked at though.

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Alexander Yukari
The Foundation Of Mammon
#235 - 2012-08-21 07:56:28 UTC
Very welcomed change.

Now pass this info to team doing incursions, and re-balance scouts sites in incursions.
From start they were useless, not worth doing.
Consider making them worthwhile for 2 logi frigs and 2-3 AF/dessies. ISK somewhere between lv2 and lv3 missions per h.
Low entry point into incursions, good practice for people before training up for logi cruiser.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#236 - 2012-08-21 08:00:38 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Galphii wrote:
This is a bit of a tangent question, but does anyone here think that an over-proliferation of logi is going to be a problem? I hear from my nullsec contacts that more and more fleets consist primarily of logi ships (scimis), so would a stacking penalty of some sort on remote repping be a good way to constraint overuse of logi? I mean, the alliance tournament puts a hard limit on logi ships for this reason (boring unkillable stalemate fleets) so perhaps its something that needs to be considered if we're going to see hordes of logi frigates running around.


I do believe I've heard the suggestion of removing healing in every PVP game I've ever played.

-Liang

Fascinating but irrelevant, because that's not what I suggested. Buy new glasses perhaps?

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#237 - 2012-08-21 08:01:59 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Fascinating but irrelevant, because that's not what I suggested. Buy new glasses perhaps?


You damn sure did pull a "because of heals!!!"

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2012-08-21 09:03:48 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Galphii wrote:
Fascinating but irrelevant, because that's not what I suggested. Buy new glasses perhaps?


You damn sure did pull a "because of heals!!!"

-Liang

He expressed the opinion that too many logis might be boring. You started acting like a turd.
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#239 - 2012-08-21 09:17:53 UTC
Pretty sure I'm posting in a stealth EAF buff thread.

This is a good thing Smile

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#240 - 2012-08-21 09:33:38 UTC
When will we have t2 versions of these firgs? seriously, these are just way too awesome to be left alone at this level. i was thinking of the possibility of frig logies for a long time, these would make nice additions to fleets :)

And what will happen to the cycle times of armor reps? shouldn't those be reconsidered also? 5 secs of repping on a frig is a lot of time, they don't always have that much of a buffer, especially when vagas and cynabals are on their neck.

Otherwise, so far so good :)