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NERF CLOAKING NOW.

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Lucian Atreides
Legio Solar
#1 - 2011-10-13 14:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian Atreides
I am sorry for the CAPS in the thread title, but if I could see you in RL I would scream those words in your face.
Nerf Cloakies now.
i dont know how you will do it, ads some fuel needs, add a miniscule percentage9like 00000.3%) of getting caught in the combat probes, really I dont care what, no matter how hard may it be, give us a chance to break a system wide camp of 1 guy in a cloakie.
There is NO way to counter him going afk to your system, and then coming back after 23 hours to kill you or hotdroping on you without warning and now way to stop him.
First of all this is metagaming, something not included in the sandbox offer of EVE.

Secondly, it ruins the gaming experience of many more people than the guy in the Cloakie

Finnaly, there isnt any inworld experience of why in 40000 AD human can jump millions of tons ships hundreds of Light Years away, but not find a rusty bucket floating in space.

Waiting for a serious answer.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#2 - 2011-10-13 15:08:11 UTC
Simple answer:

No.

Complex answer:

Cloaking is one of those sciences that was created for the safety of the Covert Ops/Recon/Black Ops/Blockade Runner pilot for the sake of being able to move from point A to point B completely undetected. Furthermore, it allows them to provide valuable intelligence or move valuable materials with minimal risks to themselves.

Now, with all of that said, before you start emo-raging as to how it is completely unfair, I have a simple question. Why should we nerf something that took that pilot a good amount of real time to train, and a good amount of practice to be able to use efficiently and effectively? The answer here is that we shouldn't, as it would suddenly nerf all of those vessels which receive role bonuses to cloaking devices. Thus it would affect more than just your run of the mill random cloaked guy.

And you also figure, sure, humankind can jump millions of tons ships hundreds of LY away, but can't find a "rusty bucket" as you call it. It is because the cloaking device (at least in more popular means) utilizes magnetic resonant fields to bend light, thus rendering the ship invisible to the eye. As for being able to scan it down? Why? There are stealth aircraft, ships and submarines in existence now that do not show up on radar at all, so you figure, using your futuristic argument against you, it would also render the ship incapable of being detected on scanners.

If anything, I think that if a ship is cloaked, the pilot should no longer show up in local, thus leaving everyone in ignorant bliss of his existence.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2011-10-13 15:09:14 UTC
What do you think about this proposal?
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#4 - 2011-10-13 15:15:56 UTC
Lucian Atreides wrote:
I am sorry for the CAPS in the thread title, but if I could see you in RL I would scream those words in your face.

you seem upset. you should relax, bro.
Quote:

i dont know how you will do it, ads some fuel needs, add a miniscule percentage9like 00000.3%) of getting caught in the combat probes, really I dont care what, no matter how hard may it be, give us a chance to break a system wide camp of 1 guy in a cloakie.

There is NO way to counter him going afk to your system, and then coming back after 23 hours to kill you or hotdroping on you without warning and now way to stop him.

perhaps you and your fellow corp and alliancemates could work together, intelligently, to bait and kill said cloaky and his buddies. While he's AFK, he's not harming you
Quote:

First of all this is metagaming, something not included in the sandbox offer of EVE.

Hahaha. Yes, eve has NO METAGAMING. Everyone in eve is super honest and would never ahahaha i'm just kidding, everyone metagames all the time.
Quote:

Secondly, it ruins the gaming experience of many more people than the guy in the Cloakie

It ruins the game experience when folks lose a ship or get scammed, but we let them do that all the time.
Quote:

Finnaly, there isnt any inworld experience of why in 40000 AD human can jump millions of tons ships hundreds of Light Years away, but not find a rusty bucket floating in space.


that doesn't even make any sense
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#5 - 2011-10-13 15:21:03 UTC
Serious answer: biomass your character.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-10-13 15:26:47 UTC
NOES !!!

I want to sit there and make bots hug the POS for hours or days !!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2011-10-13 15:35:30 UTC
Serious answer: why?
Also, no.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#8 - 2011-10-13 15:37:44 UTC
yes, people can hang around in space for infinite time periods from DT to DT. Nothing wrong with that, there is no space which is reserved for your exclusive use for whatever purposes.

yes, people can drop a fleet on unsuspecting you: Nothing wrong with that.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#9 - 2011-10-13 15:38:57 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Serious answer: biomass your character.


I literally spit out my drink when I saw this because I was laughing so hard. But it would make for a fitting solution.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#10 - 2011-10-13 16:02:30 UTC
Really, don't you feel embarrassed like this, whining and wailing on forums like a little girl?

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-13 16:11:05 UTC
I dotn think they need nerfed, but If I was goign to do it I would make it so they cycle and need a large amount of cap per cycle. that way you could fit up a AFK cloaker to perma claok but he would have to have allot of cap rechargers or something. I would assume that a stealth generator would take allot of power.
Lucian Atreides
Legio Solar
#12 - 2011-10-13 16:12:57 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Simple answer:

No.

Complex answer:

Cloaking is one of those sciences that was created for the safety of the Covert Ops/Recon/Black Ops/Blockade Runner pilot for the sake of being able to move from point A to point B completely undetected. Furthermore, it allows them to provide valuable intelligence or move valuable materials with minimal risks to themselves.

Now, with all of that said, before you start emo-raging as to how it is completely unfair, I have a simple question. Why should we nerf something that took that pilot a good amount of real time to train, and a good amount of practice to be able to use efficiently and effectively? The answer here is that we shouldn't, as it would suddenly nerf all of those vessels which receive role bonuses to cloaking devices. Thus it would affect more than just your run of the mill random cloaked guy.

And you also figure, sure, humankind can jump millions of tons ships hundreds of LY away, but can't find a "rusty bucket" as you call it. It is because the cloaking device (at least in more popular means) utilizes magnetic resonant fields to bend light, thus rendering the ship invisible to the eye. As for being able to scan it down? Why? There are stealth aircraft, ships and submarines in existence now that do not show up on radar at all, so you figure, using your futuristic argument against you, it would also render the ship incapable of being detected on scanners.

If anything, I think that if a ship is cloaked, the pilot should no longer show up in local, thus leaving everyone in ignorant bliss of his existence.



The only answer actually worth replying

1) Cloaking for going from A to B , scouting, bombing or whateverer, actually playing the game is super fine with me.Using a mechanic that it is flawed to not actively play and still get an advantage over others sounds an awful lot like what boting actually does.
2)I dont ask to be nerfed to ridiculus levels so all this trainig sucks.But if you should reactivate the cloak after 3-4 hours is so much a nerf?
3) Even in modern society, stelth is not 100% safe.Stealth airplanes had been shot down you know.
Lucian Atreides
Legio Solar
#13 - 2011-10-13 16:15:20 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Really, don't you feel embarrassed like this, whining and wailing on forums like a little girl?



Since the cryfest over Incarna fetures, SC nerfing, Hybrid Needs Rebalancing and whatever, no I feel a true Eve player.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2011-10-13 16:16:11 UTC
Funny how this happens every time this topic comes up…
Lucian Atreides wrote:
1) Cloaking for going from A to B , scouting, bombing or whateverer, actually playing the game is super fine with me.Using a mechanic that it is flawed to not actively play and still get an advantage over others sounds an awful lot like what boting actually does.
2)I dont ask to be nerfed to ridiculus levels so all this trainig sucks.But if you should reactivate the cloak after 3-4 hours is so much a nerf?
3) Even in modern society, stelth is not 100% safe.Stealth airplanes had been shot down you know.
…and yet the question remains: why? What is the problem with AFK cloaking that needs to be solved?
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#15 - 2011-10-13 16:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Carrigan
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
I would assume that a stealth generator would take allot of power.


Considering that most stealth technology is based on materials that absorb the emissions of a sensor, it would take little to no power. Furthermore, if you notice, most cloak ships receive bonuses to the amount of powergrid it requires to utilize said technology, on the basis that they are DESIGNED with said technology in mind.

Another thing to take into account is that to prevent its own sensor emissions from being detected, typically things utilizing stealth technology have much better electromagnetic and RF shielding than things not utilizing said technology. As well as utilizing passive sensor suites, and specialized vectored thrust nozzles to redirect/recapture thermal exhaust.

So again, no nerf needed.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Lucian Atreides
Legio Solar
#16 - 2011-10-13 16:19:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Funny how this happens every time this topic comes up…
Lucian Atreides wrote:
1) Cloaking for going from A to B , scouting, bombing or whateverer, actually playing the game is super fine with me.Using a mechanic that it is flawed to not actively play and still get an advantage over others sounds an awful lot like what boting actually does.
2)I dont ask to be nerfed to ridiculus levels so all this trainig sucks.But if you should reactivate the cloak after 3-4 hours is so much a nerf?
3) Even in modern society, stelth is not 100% safe.Stealth airplanes had been shot down you know.
…and yet the question remains: why? What is the problem with AFK cloaking that needs to be solved?


Point 1 should be enough for you.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#17 - 2011-10-13 16:24:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Lucian Atreides wrote:

Point 1 should be enough for you.


you mean the part where being at PC and pressing keyboard keys is the only way eve should be played.

So remove afk SP gain would be the next flaw requiring a fix?
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-13 16:24:49 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
I would assume that a stealth generator would take allot of power.


Considering that most stealth technology is based on materials that absorb the emissions of a sensor, it would take little to no power. Furthermore, if you notice, most cloak ships receive bonuses to the amount of powergrid it requires to utilize said technology, on the basis that they are DESIGNED with said technology in mind.

Another thing to take into account is that to prevent its own sensor emissions from being detected, typically things utilizing stealth technology have much better electromagnetic and RF shielding than things not utilizing said technology. As well as utilizing passive sensor suites, and specialized vectored thrust nozzles to redirect/recapture thermal exhaust.

So again, no nerf needed.


yet that baising it off the idea that your hiding your emisions not your ship like modern claok planes. yet you can still see them with your eye. the power needed to run a a flied that absorbs imagry around you and projects it on your shields might take some power to run.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#19 - 2011-10-13 16:30:17 UTC
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
I would assume that a stealth generator would take allot of power.


Considering that most stealth technology is based on materials that absorb the emissions of a sensor, it would take little to no power. Furthermore, if you notice, most cloak ships receive bonuses to the amount of powergrid it requires to utilize said technology, on the basis that they are DESIGNED with said technology in mind.

Another thing to take into account is that to prevent its own sensor emissions from being detected, typically things utilizing stealth technology have much better electromagnetic and RF shielding than things not utilizing said technology. As well as utilizing passive sensor suites, and specialized vectored thrust nozzles to redirect/recapture thermal exhaust.

So again, no nerf needed.


yet that baising it off the idea that your hiding your emisions not your ship like modern claok planes. yet you can still see them with your eye. the power needed to run a a flied that absorbs imagry around you and projects it on your shields might take some power to run.


Considering that the cloaking device utlizes magnetic fields which are inherently present, and alters them using polarity to bend light surrounding the ship (i.e. refraction), thus giving the illusion that there is nothing there (not absorbing imagery around you as you suggest), it wouldn't require more power than a ship's power core is capable of producing (considering said core can power a warp drive which accellerates a ship to faster than light speed without the usage of additional fuels). Furthermore, this idea would be responsible for nerfing several ship classes (a few of which are already in need of being repaired) moreso.

Therefore, this suggestion of nerfing the cloaking device is part of the problem, not part of any solution.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Lucian Atreides
Legio Solar
#20 - 2011-10-13 16:34:07 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
I would assume that a stealth generator would take allot of power.


Considering that most stealth technology is based on materials that absorb the emissions of a sensor, it would take little to no power. Furthermore, if you notice, most cloak ships receive bonuses to the amount of powergrid it requires to utilize said technology, on the basis that they are DESIGNED with said technology in mind.

Another thing to take into account is that to prevent its own sensor emissions from being detected, typically things utilizing stealth technology have much better electromagnetic and RF shielding than things not utilizing said technology. As well as utilizing passive sensor suites, and specialized vectored thrust nozzles to redirect/recapture thermal exhaust.

So again, no nerf needed.


yet that baising it off the idea that your hiding your emisions not your ship like modern claok planes. yet you can still see them with your eye. the power needed to run a a flied that absorbs imagry around you and projects it on your shields might take some power to run.


Considering that the cloaking device utlizes magnetic fields which are inherently present, and alters them using polarity to bend light surrounding the ship (i.e. refraction), thus giving the illusion that there is nothing there (not absorbing imagery around you as you suggest), it wouldn't require more power than a ship's power core is capable of producing (considering said core can power a warp drive which accellerates a ship to faster than light speed without the usage of additional fuels). Furthermore, this idea would be responsible for nerfing several ship classes (a few of which are already in need of being repaired) moreso.

Therefore, this suggestion of nerfing the cloaking device is part of the problem, not part of any solution.


Just make the Cloaking device Cycle every 4 hours.Problem Solved.
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