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POS ME & PE renting.
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Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#1 - 2012-08-16 00:40:17 UTC
Hi.

First time posting on the forums.

I am currently working on increasing my standings to be able to Anchor a POS in Highsec

I plan on doing ME, PE and possibily copying for other players at a hourly rate. Ive checked around a bit but I can't seem to find a median price for those services.

So mostly, i want to know if there is a generally agreed upon price for those, and if a Small POS can make it's fuel cost using those slots

Thank you for you attention and help.

I sell drones and drones accessories.
Rainbow Moose
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-08-16 02:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rainbow Moose
Step 1: Calculate how much fuel it takes to run a POS.

Step 2: Find someone who has said POS and free slots.

Step 3: Offer 1.5x-2x step 1 for the duration of your renting so that they are making a profit.
Lord Wickham
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-16 02:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Wickham
in the past this happened more frequently, nowadays i think people see the profit in researching a blueprint to a certain lvl and then selling it for profit.

in people doing that means you have direct competetion and should also be able to take your pricings from current bpo prices.

for example if a hurricane at me 20 pe 10 is for sale at 500 mil thats roughly about 150mil over npc which is gona take roughly 3months. thats 50mil a month.

if you got 10 slots working that its 500mil a month from 1 characters worth of research. on a small pos thats probly a 350mil profit monthly?(not sure of pos fuel prices currently) obviously this route requires owning collateral in the region of 3.5 bil with no payout for 3months.


speaking on a personal basis im not gona give you my tempest blueprint to research without you giving me collateral for that, and your not gona wana buy a tempest blueprint to research for me in case i no longer want it 3-4 months down the line. the only way to secure against that is to take a small downpayment (50mil?) giving incentive for people to want to stick to the contract they made between you. but of course 10 downpayments is 500mil which could be considered an amount scammable.
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#4 - 2012-08-16 02:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Navarro
Actually, i wanted to set it up so:

-Charge an ISK fee per hour ( example 30k for a ME slot)

-Ask the number of ME wanted, calculate time then give total cost and time

-Contract the BPO to me ( if it is valuable, offering a collateral of 80-90%, depending on ease of sell if breach of contract)

-Do the research

-Contract back in jita after it's done, include collateral and fee to said contract

-(Optional) Profit


Frankly, i jsut want to set myself off to some semi AFK profit. I'm working on invention right now, and i doubt i could use all the slots on a POS reliably, so renting them could be a good way to have a small side income

If you have suggestion id be glad to hear them


Edit: removed most blatant typos.

I sell drones and drones accessories.
Tali Nakrar
Nine Six One Syndicate
#5 - 2012-08-16 07:49:27 UTC
I'm one of those people that would be interested as a client. I think many of your main clients will be like me, someone who is just starting out and does not have several research characters already. Some points:

At one character, (10 jobs) you would use a small POS, and that costs roughly 170k in fuel per hour, plus some documents. So that's 17k per slot per hour. So that probably means you can ask at most 20k for a slot hour to have any meaningful throughput of clients. Preferably it should be less. That is fine since larger POSes scale even harder.

The competition: Research Alliances that charge 10-15k. No risk or trust involved, no hassle with having you online all the time. If you do not make your own alliance you have to bear in mind you are competing with them on ME and PE (copy and invention is not doable in Alliance only).

Possibly your best course of action is to join one of these alliances and run your POS through them.
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#6 - 2012-08-16 22:43:50 UTC
I can see your point, but i see th advantage i would offer as such:

-You don't need to quit your active corp (thus no 1 day period to leave, not losing contacts, etc)

-Safe service (nobody else but me in the corp, so no theft ( i could steal it, but then again i'd rather not have to deal with all the **** i would catch, and furthermore, it would disrupt my own activities. Long term profit >quick dirty cash)

-Ease of use (calculate price, contract, research, contract back )



Also, the alts of this guy will be trained to do ME and PE too, to be able to man all the slots concurrently. Price would be in fonction of the main, so no overcharge due to slower researching.


Again, this is a long term plan i got, and i jsut want to make sure i don't trip in the details later on.

I sell drones and drones accessories.
Ginger Barbarella
#7 - 2012-08-16 23:20:24 UTC
Getting people to contract their BPOs to you may be one wrinkle in your plan, and you being cash liquid enough to pay out market value collateral may be another. You could consider setting up your own research alliance so corps can just join the alliance and rent your tower labs, or replicate what NER (New Eden Research) and others have done.

Personally, I've found the best option is to buy popular BPOs myself, research them to good levels (I don't do the "perfect" thing; it's foolish), and sell them to interested parties. Take word-of-honor promises to sell copies to someone, crank 'em out, and sell those. There's a number of ways to do it. Get a good stock going, and hang out in the Blueprints channel. It's not cost effective to cover EVERYTHING, but if you want Contracts and the Blueprints channel you may begin to see trends where you can try staking out a market in.

Good luck!

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#8 - 2012-08-16 23:24:23 UTC

Personnaly researching then sellign the BPO does sound like an interesting avenue. I could certainly find something people are gonna use and could use the efficiency in ( first tought would be ammo, but then i'm unsure if there is profit to be done here )

Quick question since you seem pretty knowledgeable in this, is there a good market for BPC (researched or not) For exemple, i could try to get a retriever blueprint, research, then sell the copies ?

I sell drones and drones accessories.
Ginger Barbarella
#9 - 2012-08-17 18:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Markus Navarro wrote:

Personnaly researching then sellign the BPO does sound like an interesting avenue. I could certainly find something people are gonna use and could use the efficiency in ( first tought would be ammo, but then i'm unsure if there is profit to be done here )

Quick question since you seem pretty knowledgeable in this, is there a good market for BPC (researched or not) For exemple, i could try to get a retriever blueprint, research, then sell the copies ?


It depends entirely upon where you are and your chosen market. For example, selling Retriever BPCs in a factional warfare area is just silly; manufacturing Gyro IIs, for example, in that same market will do much better. T1 mining crystals in area with large numbers of mining agents might sell better than (for example) blaster BPCs, but manufacturing those same blasters in areas around ice belts might do better than other areas. :) It's all about seeing what sells in your market and how activities are run in the area.

Many people have no interest in doing any manufacturing themselves, and just creating contracts is just about as passive (ie, sit around and wait) as they come. Watch Blueprints, get a feel for what people look for regularly in there (they are ACTIVE buyers in Blueprints channel), and buy and research prints from that intel. For example, I can sell well-researched Drake BPCs all day long in blueprints, but they rarely move at all just sitting in Contracts waiting.

Hope that helps. Quick answer: I manufacture a LOT more than I sell blueprints, and my blueprints that sell are items in demand at that time.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#10 - 2012-08-17 22:46:18 UTC
Really does help. I'll check up the bpo channel for a while until i can actually set up the POS. My system is a good missioning hub, so I should be able to find something in good demand here.

Anyway, thank you again for the help

I sell drones and drones accessories.
Ginger Barbarella
#11 - 2012-08-17 23:02:24 UTC
Markus Navarro wrote:
Really does help. I'll check up the bpo channel for a while until i can actually set up the POS. My system is a good missioning hub, so I should be able to find something in good demand here.

Anyway, thank you again for the help


If there's anything else I can help with feel free to post here or mail me in-game.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Lord Wickham
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-08-19 02:28:43 UTC
First off no idea why your both talking about selling bpcs in random systems if you make or research bpcs you sell them in jita. As for profit my example from before still stands and can tell you that up until 6 months ago my aim for research slot was 100mil a month. No idea what that works out to in profit per hour or day but it covered the expenses of my large POS with a little extra to spare. Now obviously your operation will be smaller but the principal should be the same. Buy a mix of bc or cruiser bpos research them to optimal and then sell them. If you don't have the isk to get in at this lvl then I wouldn't.
Ginger Barbarella
#13 - 2012-08-19 03:33:31 UTC
Lord Wickham wrote:
First off no idea why your both talking about selling bpcs in random systems if you make or research bpcs you sell them in jita. As for profit my example from before still stands and can tell you that up until 6 months ago my aim for research slot was 100mil a month. No idea what that works out to in profit per hour or day but it covered the expenses of my large POS with a little extra to spare. Now obviously your operation will be smaller but the principal should be the same. Buy a mix of bc or cruiser bpos research them to optimal and then sell them. If you don't have the isk to get in at this lvl then I wouldn't.


Wow. Do you even do any of what you just posted about? Roll

1. "Random": your word. Reread what I posted, and concentrate on comprehension.
2. Selling in Jita = fast, low cost. Not profitable. I sell almost exclusively in Amarr, and always make better prices than Jita.
3. Buying a BC BPO, research/tower time, and selling is just about guaranteed to not make any profit at all, especially in Jita.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Lord Wickham
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-08-19 20:57:01 UTC
anywhere except jita is random, every person who makes major isk will be there or amarr, perhaps dodixie. maybe you want to reread your own post and re-edit it to specify in bpcs or bpo's and not the manufacture of modules to suit miners or fw pvp'ers before picking my **** apart.

everyone buys in jita it has the most competition and thus offers the best price for the buyer, if you put a bpo for sale in rens or jita 9/10 times it will sell faster at jita.


do you think people research BC's to a certain lvl and sell them for 0 profit? if so i think the 30-40 odd people who currently have hurricane bpo's on contracts would disagree, not to mention the people who have tornado,talos drake oracles on contract too.


back to original posters question/request imo best way for you to afk profit, if isk isn't a problem is to set yourself up a small tower buy 10 different bpos(dont pull all your eggs in 1 basket) with similar research time and put it in for research for a month, its the most afk isk you can make. bpc's will work too but from experience will net you a far lower profit margin.
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-08-19 21:37:33 UTC
Don't just take fuel cost into account, also take plex cost into account, if you have accounts just for this.Which adds another 25k per slot/h.
And you won't have all slots busy all the time which you need to take into account.
Mane Rin
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-08-20 21:54:26 UTC
I am interested in this avenue myself. Can i research a BPO that is locked in a station, in my pos? Or does the original have to be in the POS lab?
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#17 - 2012-08-20 23:56:50 UTC
You can if you have a corporative office in the station. makes researching completely safe if you are in a 1 man corp, for example

I sell drones and drones accessories.
FightTh3p0w3r
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-08-21 00:05:57 UTC
I've seen a lot of talk from a few people about starting up a research service to rent out ME / PE slots.

Let me just say that as a POS provider for NER and someone whos been doing it awhile, there is a LOT of competition, not just within NER, but all of eve.

Everyone has the same idea, to make a buck off researching peoples BPOs. I can tell you right now that anyone with common sense will not just outright contract you their BPO's and pay you upfront. However there are special cases, for instance I have a client that I am doing work for and have his BPO's with no collateral and he pays upfront for the research I am doing.

Anyone that is *smart* about it will shop around and will either contact an existing research provider, make an alt corp and put it in a research alliance like NER, or just put up their own pos. If they are really serious about researching and taking advantage of other slot types, then most will go with option 3.

As far as pricing goes *most* that I have seen are not that expensive. I think all the corps that provide pos towers in NER price at around 12-15k IPH for ME and 2k IPH PE.

Unless you spend a ton of isk on hyasoda labs (spelling?) to get all the ME and PE slots you can, the chances of you running all the slots 24/7 will still not completely pay for your fuel.

You will have to subsidize the cost somehow.