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Its finally happend: ccp killed amarr/minm fw fun
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RTSAvalanche
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#201 - 2012-08-20 17:26:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
[quote=Lord BryanII]If Minimatar did not have their geography advantage and did not get that super boost that they did from the goons, would it be fair to say that the Amarr/Minimatar war would be much closer than it is now? If the answer is yes, then would we still be talking about farmers as much as we are now?

I don't think farmers are the issue tbh




Once everyone saw Minmatar could hit tier 5 well everyone started getting alts to run the plexes. The sheer volume of alts is not something amarr can touch.




Let's not forget about a certain alliance that made sure tier5 would happen for minmatar. One of the important factors of push starting the minmatar-money-train
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#202 - 2012-08-20 17:31:19 UTC
plexing for systems and isk made fw into exactly what w all screamed about before inferno.

PVE vs PVE

seriously?

Its currently like 2 teams 'fighting' over who gets the buttons and good isk, like incursions, only you can choose your side, and guess what, people do and will continue to join the best isk side. How super duper obvious was this from the start?

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#203 - 2012-08-20 17:35:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezra Tair
Cearain wrote:
Ezra Tair wrote:
The fleet that performed the heavy lifting of offensive plexing Kour and Kam varied between 20 and 55 for the 12+ hours each day it was going. At this time we could have been forced out, or combated at any time. But for almost the entirety of the weekend we were unopposed, and were able to create a large time zone coverage of the 'front'. I assure you we were not gunless AFK plexing alts that 'took' your stations.


What difference does holding these 2 or 3 systems make? The entire war front of the 67 other systems was going down in flames like dry grass due to farming alts. It's silly to defend this mechanic where alts hide in systems and run plex timers when no wartargets are around.

Ezra Tair wrote:

I understand some of you don't like orbiting buttons. I don't blame you, its not particularity satisfying. But I think some/many of the Amarrian side forgot one simple thing. For a long time, even before their was a LP reward for doing so, many minmatar plexed and desired to 'capture' systems.


If you consider 10 players "many" ok. One player had more vp than any of your minmatar corporations. Plexing was always done most efficiently with armies of alts that avoided pvp. This has been why fw is broken since the beginning and its still why its broken. CCP missed the main problem completely with inferno.

"It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), ….111 faction warfare complexes were captured … I did not kill anyone in the process..” Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00


If 1/3 to 1/2 of the sides ships are in those systems, and they are key system to get a quick reship from. They count for alot eh? I can't help the 'alts' of either side. But you yourself added to the problem by doing the same. Both have always been constrained by the same mechanic, its silly to say that one side or the other has an advantage. Its better to state that people enjoy joining a 'winning' side and landsliding it in competitions. That s human nature. It also happened when Nulli started putting system into contested. (and much whining was had by all).

If 10 was all it took, where were your 10? Are you implying Saswaong won it for us all? I'll let him know that. Im sure he enjoyed all the rewards from RP'ing Minmatar elements that paid him to do so? Where was CVA or any applicable corp for you guys? I've taken FAR more than 111 plexes in the 2 or so years I've been in FW, and I only recently reached the top rank due to a corp mission plexing run for our new guys standings. You know as well as I do that their is a diminishing return on plexing after awhile.

BTW, I have a great deal of respect for you. You popped my very first rapier with a rupture in a plex with 'my sides NPCs', and I've been scared off using them forever xD.
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#204 - 2012-08-20 17:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ezra Tair
Muad 'dib wrote:
plexing for systems and isk made fw into exactly what w all screamed about before inferno.

PVE vs PVE

seriously?

Its currently like 2 teams 'fighting' over who gets the buttons and good isk, like incursions, only you can choose your side, and guess what, people do and will continue to join the best isk side. How super duper obvious was this from the start?



But nothing stops you from playing the same game. Yes I know you guys (pretty much solo) took sis, and almost auga. I think our willingness to fleet up together when needed and fight for each others objectives helped alot. You also made defending auga as painful as possible when fleets were not dedicated to the task

Edit to add--


Yea, but look at null sec, and tell me thats not a normal human behavior to group up with the 'winning' side. I joined minmatar when it was the 'losing' side long ago, because I like being the underdog. Seriously, look at my first few KMs...I bio-massed and re-rolled.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#205 - 2012-08-20 17:42:26 UTC
RTSAvalanche wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
[quote=Lord BryanII]If Minimatar did not have their geography advantage and did not get that super boost that they did from the goons, would it be fair to say that the Amarr/Minimatar war would be much closer than it is now? If the answer is yes, then would we still be talking about farmers as much as we are now?

I don't think farmers are the issue tbh




Once everyone saw Minmatar could hit tier 5 well everyone started getting alts to run the plexes. The sheer volume of alts is not something amarr can touch.




Let's not forget about a certain alliance that made sure tier5 would happen for minmatar. One of the important factors of push starting the minmatar-money-train


You really still think the Goonies did anything for us? ShockedWhat?

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#206 - 2012-08-20 18:05:03 UTC
Ezra Tair wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If you consider 10 players "many" ok. One player had more vp than any of your minmatar corporations. Plexing was always done most efficiently with armies of alts that avoided pvp. This has been why fw is broken since the beginning and its still why its broken. CCP missed the main problem completely with inferno.

"It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), ….111 faction warfare complexes were captured … I did not kill anyone in the process..” Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00


If 1/3 to 1/2 of the sides ships are in those systems, and they are key system to get a quick reship from. They count for alot eh? I can't help the 'alts' of either side.


I think its just a matter of time before people realize that basing in fw systems just means you are saddled with the obligation to defensive plex. Its just not smart from a purely plexing perspective.

Ezra Tair wrote:

But you yourself added to the problem by doing the same. Both have always been constrained by the same mechanic, its silly to say that one side or the other has an advantage. .



If we always had the same npcs in missions and in plexes then I would agree there was no mechanics advantage. But there was a large disparaty in the rats. How much of a factor this was is hard to say. I can say I personally know people who admitted leaving the amarr for minmatar and caldari due to this reason. That doesn't even speak of the people who just joined the easier side to begin with. Nor does it address the actual fact that your side could always cap majors in a rifter when most of fw history we needed a pve bc or even a bs.

Ezra Tair wrote:

...
If 10 was all it took, where were your 10? Are you implying Saswaong won it for us all? I'll let him know that. Im sure he enjoyed all the rewards from RP'ing Minmatar elements that paid him to do so? .


No one contributed more. No fc, no elite pvper even came close. The war zone would have looked quite a bit different if he never played eve. At least its a good question as to what it would like if he never played eve - let alone if he would have joined amarr.

As for me I would do, and still do, plexes primarilly for the pvp. Plexes are a good way to get fights. But the actual plexing war is most efficiently waged by avoiding fights. Sounds like a contradiction, perhaps, but its true.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#207 - 2012-08-20 18:05:22 UTC

Ezra Tair wrote:

Where was CVA or any applicable corp for you guys? I've taken FAR more than 111 plexes in the 2 or so years I've been in FW, and I only recently reached the top rank due to a corp mission plexing run for our new guys standings. You know as well as I do that their is a diminishing return on plexing after awhile..


I think it depends on how many are in the plex with you. But if she ran more plexes without ever killing anyone in pvp to get that top rank its even worse.

Ezra Tair wrote:

BTW, I have a great deal of respect for you. You popped my very first rapier in a rupture in a plex, and I've been scared off using them forever xD.



I have respect for you, your corp and generally minmatar as well. Plexing issues aside I think we get more good fights than anywhere else in eve.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#208 - 2012-08-20 18:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
CCP made the grass greener and then left the gate open.

guess what all the cattle ended up in the same place *shocking*

can we cut FW out of low sec and throw it in a wormhole somwhere and try again now please?

surprised it took this many months actually

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
RTSAvalanche
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#209 - 2012-08-20 18:37:47 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
RTSAvalanche wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
[quote=Lord BryanII]If Minimatar did not have their geography advantage and did not get that super boost that they did from the goons, would it be fair to say that the Amarr/Minimatar war would be much closer than it is now? If the answer is yes, then would we still be talking about farmers as much as we are now?

I don't think farmers are the issue tbh




Once everyone saw Minmatar could hit tier 5 well everyone started getting alts to run the plexes. The sheer volume of alts is not something amarr can touch.




Let's not forget about a certain alliance that made sure tier5 would happen for minmatar. One of the important factors of push starting the minmatar-money-train


You really still think the Goonies did anything for us? ShockedWhat?



You really still think the Nulli's did anything for us? Shocked
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#210 - 2012-08-20 18:39:08 UTC
RTSAvalanche wrote:
You really still think the Nulli's did anything for us? Shocked


They got you to T4, m8.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Persephone Proserpine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#211 - 2012-08-20 18:42:07 UTC
Honestly, I don't want to log on after work.... just to Work some more to TRY to have some semblance of the Game that I used to love. I mourn the loss of the FW I knew. At least then when I needed ISK I could just do the work and get it, not have to spin round a button for days on end and get over 200 people to assemble for the task.
RTSAvalanche
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#212 - 2012-08-20 18:42:27 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
RTSAvalanche wrote:
You really still think the Nulli's did anything for us? Shocked


They got you to T4, m8.


WE did the work, making systems vunerable all over the place, long before they showed up - infact they forced our hand into doing before we wanted, so no... tier4 for about an hour & most of the people I know in amarr militia were not logged on to enjoy the brief moments of it
Luke Visteen
#213 - 2012-08-20 19:00:16 UTC
Persephone Proserpine wrote:
Honestly, I don't want to log on after work.... just to Work some more to TRY to have some semblance of the Game that I used to love. I mourn the loss of the FW I knew. At least then when I needed ISK I could just do the work and get it, not have to spin round a button for days on end and get over 200 people to assemble for the task.


that's the point. If people wanted sov they'd go to null sec. Who cares about sov lol.

.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#214 - 2012-08-20 19:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Christine Peeveepeeski
On a side note, whoever said TMFED don't undock and if we do we stay pos'd go **** yourselves.

I do :P

I don't have time in EVE to **** about for 10-25minutes orbiting buttons, or **** talking while docked (although sometimes while working at home I use EVE as a chat client).

When playing EVE I head off and find stuff to shoot. If i stick round kam/kourm etc 1 of two things happens. i get blobbed or I attack people that don't know who we are/have the balls to fight us and **** them in the ass.

Yes we use boosters in the major systems.. as do minmatar so go **** yourselves.
Yes we have POS's in major warfare systems in FW because we can't dock.
Yes we pick our fights carefull because we know who's going to blob and dieing means wasting time traveling halfway across a warzone just to reship.
Yes we kite 90% of the time because we fight in systems where we are 4 or 5 of system full of 30 minmatar. Brawling means Dead and i am gutted because i love brawling :(

We do our fair share of gay ****... like smart bombing pods or sniping at stations but we don't kid ourselves. It's not legit space honourable PVP and we know that. It IS funny though if your bored (although I've only done suicide ganking as my funny PVP thing of choice).

TMFED are the best pvpers I have flown with, I've learnt more about small gang ops in TMFED from RTS, maz3r and the rest of the crew than I ever did anywhere else.
There are also few corps that love amarr AND all of Faction warfare.

So STFU :P

we are terrible though btw...........

p.s.
Gump has a specific comb for his beard
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#215 - 2012-08-20 21:50:49 UTC
RTSAvalanche wrote:

... tier4 for about an hour & most of the people I know in amarr militia were not logged on to enjoy the brief moments of it

Once again, I blame CCP chatgris for this - the cause of all that is wrong with FW. And a Wex's crew, and all those RP Minmatar griefer corps, and ...
Eric Deloitte
The Flowing Penguins
#216 - 2012-08-20 22:17:11 UTC
RTSAvalanche wrote:


You really still think the Nulli's did anything for us? Shocked


They got the amarr the system reset some wanted at the beginning
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#217 - 2012-08-20 23:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
This post will probably get lost in the torrent of terrible Cearin posts, but I'd just like to say all the best to WBR in your future.

I think everyone knows you folks are one of the best (if not the best) organised corps in FW but I'm not surprised you're off....

When you have cap fleets, titans and a world of other fun toys as an entity you've probably outgrown chasing 10MN AB frigates around plexes and stomping kitchen sink fleets and such.

Best of luck.

However much doom people from the Amarr side spew now though, they are missing this is actually a great opportunity to become the new 'most organised/best' corp. So many myopic people in militia, but someone new will inevitably step up to the plate soon.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#218 - 2012-08-21 01:13:57 UTC
I have a minnie alt that is primed for PvP in a rifter/thrasher/cane... what's the payout like for farming with the Minnie fleets? - I might have to get in on the ISK fountains to fund my other "amarr" based fun stuff... oh Retriever BPO anyone...hehe...
Markius TheShed
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#219 - 2012-08-21 06:59:59 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:


Yes we use boosters in the major systems.. as do minmatar so go **** yourselves.
Yes we have POS's in major warfare systems in FW because we can't dock.
Yes we pick our fights carefull because we know who's going to blob and dieing means wasting time traveling halfway across a warzone just to reship.
Yes we kite 90% of the time because we fight in systems where we are 4 or 5 of system full of 30 minmatar. Brawling means Dead and i am gutted because i love brawling :(

We do our fair share of gay ****... like smart bombing pods or sniping at stations but we don't kid ourselves. It's not legit space honourable PVP and we know that. It IS funny though if your bored (although I've only done suicide ganking as my funny PVP thing of choice).



And all that makes me avoid 1v1 fights with your Corp, I can only think of one good fight I've had with TMFED and that was our SFI duel in Siseide.

And all those tactics encourage or require a blob to count it or we just avoid your corp in a 1v1 situation, No one can guarantee perfect fights everytime you just have to adapt to the situation and your enemies.

**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107
Dan Carter Murray
#220 - 2012-08-21 08:27:43 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
On a side note, whoever said TMFED don't undock and if we do we stay pos'd go **** yourselves.

I do :P

I don't have time in EVE to **** about for 10-25minutes orbiting buttons, or **** talking while docked (although sometimes while working at home I use EVE as a chat client).

When playing EVE I head off and find stuff to shoot. If i stick round kam/kourm etc 1 of two things happens. i get blobbed or I attack people that don't know who we are/have the balls to fight us and **** them in the ass.

Yes we use boosters in the major systems.. as do minmatar so go **** yourselves.
Yes we have POS's in major warfare systems in FW because we can't dock.
Yes we pick our fights carefull because we know who's going to blob and dieing means wasting time traveling halfway across a warzone just to reship.
Yes we kite 90% of the time because we fight in systems where we are 4 or 5 of system full of 30 minmatar. Brawling means Dead and i am gutted because i love brawling :(

We do our fair share of gay ****... like smart bombing pods or sniping at stations but we don't kid ourselves. It's not legit space honourable PVP and we know that. It IS funny though if your bored (although I've only done suicide ganking as my funny PVP thing of choice).

TMFED are the best pvpers I have flown with, I've learnt more about small gang ops in TMFED from RTS, maz3r and the rest of the crew than I ever did anywhere else.
There are also few corps that love amarr AND all of Faction warfare.

So STFU :P

we are terrible though btw...........

p.s.
Gump has a specific comb for his beard


Mother of God...

Greatest ******* post ever

I like this dudes style

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com