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How HIGH would PLEX HAVE to go...
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Anslo
Scope Works
#81 - 2012-08-20 17:02:36 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Plex = Pay to win


I just sold a character (it's what I do).

13M SP. Normally I'd be lucky to get 5.5B for it. But some guy wanted it real bad and offered 8B. I'm not going to turn that down so I log in to set things up and he says, " Hold on a sec. I just have to buy the PLEXes to sell for the sale."

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.

How can a mission runner, miner or builder compete with a guy who has deep pockets IRL and nothing to spend it on but his MMO du jour. PLEX should be removed and just go back to GTC's and make them not sellable for ISK.

Game Time Code. I think people have forgotten what that actually means. Not Get The Cash.

Mr Epeen Cool



This

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Maxxatan
SSEO KG
#82 - 2012-08-20 17:12:37 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=143535
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#83 - 2012-08-20 17:18:09 UTC
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


Neither is buying ISK from an RMT site. Some poor schmuck still had to make the ISK to sell. But that doesn't make it right.

Mr Epeen Cool
Maxxatan
SSEO KG
#84 - 2012-08-20 17:21:42 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


Neither is buying ISK from an RMT site. Some poor ******* still had to make the ISK to sell. But that doesn't make it right.

Mr Epeen Cool


Just out of interest, what would you sell GTC for if not ISK?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=143535
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#85 - 2012-08-20 17:25:08 UTC
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


Neither is buying ISK from an RMT site. Some poor ******* still had to make the ISK to sell. But that doesn't make it right.

Mr Epeen Cool


Just out of interest, what would you sell GTC for if not ISK?


I wouldn't sell it. That's the point.

It's purpose is to allow people who can't or won't use a sub to play the game. At least originally. Now it's just a legit avenue for RMT.

Mr Epeen Cool
Maxxatan
SSEO KG
#86 - 2012-08-20 17:26:19 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


Just out of interest, what would you sell GTC for if not ISK?

I wouldn't sell it. That's the point.

It's purpose is to allow people who can't or won't use a sub to play the game. At least originally. Now it's just a legit avenue for RMT.

Mr Epeen Cool


But I don't understand. Why would anyone buy GTC instead of just subscribing if all you could do with GTC was buy subscription time anyway?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=143535
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-08-20 17:27:21 UTC
Elvis Fett wrote:
I've always wondered who is buying all this PLEX with money? I know of a handful of people who may of bought one or two plex in their EVE career. I know many more who sub 1-2 alt accounts month in and month out with PLEX. It would seem to me that the demand should far outweigh the supply.


Meh, I've bought a lot lately. Cashed out big on Diablo 3: Crap Edition, so spendt the cash from that and bought 18. Might just end up rebuying and using once price drops though, usually does during winter.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#88 - 2012-08-20 17:28:14 UTC
Maxxatan wrote:


But I don't understand.


No kidding.

Mr Epeen Cool
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-08-20 17:36:09 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


Neither is buying ISK from an RMT site. Some poor ******* still had to make the ISK to sell. But that doesn't make it right.

Mr Epeen Cool


PLEX and RMT both encourage ISK farming.

PLEX encourage players to ISK farm so that they can play for free.

RMT encourages ISK sellers to ISK farm so that they can make more RL money.

I'm sure bots enter into the equation too.
Maxxatan
SSEO KG
#90 - 2012-08-20 17:40:39 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Maxxatan wrote:


But I don't understand.


No kidding.

Mr Epeen Cool


If you can't explain your viewpoint adequately then why bother putting it forward?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=143535
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-08-20 17:48:12 UTC
Citsatllort wrote:
It's already at the point where I'm not going to renew.


We don't need quitters around here anyway.

OT: I already pay for my subs along with all my alts. You can go give another developer your time and money but you'll never get the quality CCP delivers.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-08-20 18:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


I've always been a little torn on PLEX.

Ultimately, a PLEX is just a GTC by another name: you buy it for real money and use it for gametime. The end-of-life for every PLEX is gametime. Once it's consumed, that value is gone from the EVE universe. So it's really not "manufacturing ISK out of thin air" any more than subbing a new player is "manufacturing ISK out of thin air".

PLEX does distort play in other ways, though, and it can give rise to a "pay to win" situation. EVE is a time-heavy game -- the only way prior to PLEX to get billions of ISK for a freighter or POS or something was to grind endlessly for it. Now, a few PLEX and hey presto! Shiny new freighter in your hanger. Or unlimited amounts of POS fuel. Or whatever.

So, yes, PLEX can allow a player to "speed up" EVE a bit.

But the flip-side of this is that adults in RL do not have unlimited amounts of time to grind for ISK. If all you have is an hour or two a day to play EVE, PLEX is pretty much the only way to be able to afford some of the more pimp gear in a reasonable time frame. EVE is a game to be played for fun; it shouldn't be a second job. PLEX allows more well-heeled players to basically subsidize play-time for poorer players who have more time than money. Both sides win -- that's the glory of a market economy.

It's also a myth that a PLEX is a "play for free" option. Someone paid real money for PLEX, and at some point the PLEX will be consumed as game-time. Poorer folk with more time than money are using RL time to grind ISK to buy PLEX to play EVE. They are simply substituting time for money. (Because in RL as in EVE, time is money.)
AdmiralJohn
The Unknown Bar and Pub
#93 - 2012-08-20 19:12:12 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
[quote=Maxxatan]But the flip-side of this is that adults in RL do not have unlimited amounts of time to grind for ISK. If all you have is an hour or two a day to play EVE, PLEX is pretty much the only way to be able to afford some of the more pimp gear in a reasonable time frame. EVE is a game to be played for fun; it shouldn't be a second job. PLEX allows more well-heeled players to basically subsidize play-time for poorer players who have more time than money. Both sides win -- that's the glory of a market economy.

It's also a myth that a PLEX is a "play for free" option. Someone paid real money for PLEX, and at some point the PLEX will be consumed as game-time. Poorer folk with more time than money are using RL time to grind ISK to buy PLEX to play EVE. They are simply substituting time for money. (Because in RL as in EVE, time is money.)


This is exactly it. When I have time to play, I don't want to spend it grinding boring missions or belt ratting or whatever it is the plebs do. I want to have enough to fly a ship that isn't ****-fit, join a fleet and dump on nerds. I also put some money towards seeding the market, and currently that's my only way of making ISK in-game, but I do it more to help the alliance than to make a profit.

It's nice that there are people out there who will grind internet spaceships to let me afford this lifestyle, and I am kind enough to cover their game time expense.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#94 - 2012-08-20 19:15:16 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


Neither is buying ISK from an RMT site. Some poor ******* still had to make the ISK to sell. But that doesn't make it right.

Mr Epeen Cool



That guy didn't increase the amount of ISk in the game by even 0.1 (in fact he almost certainly decreased it a few million).

He also allowed 8 other players to play for a month for free, something that ISK farmers rarely if ever do.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#95 - 2012-08-20 20:28:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Maxxatan wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Moral is that not only is PLEX RMT, but it's one of the root causes of the runaway inflation going on right now.



PLEX is not an isk faucet. It is a small isk sink really because of transaction taxes.


Neither is buying ISK from an RMT site. Some poor ******* still had to make the ISK to sell. But that doesn't make it right.

Mr Epeen Cool



That guy didn't increase the amount of ISk in the game by even 0.1 (in fact he almost certainly decreased it a few million).

He also allowed 8 other players to play for a month for free, something that ISK farmers rarely if ever do.


Eight people play for free? Free!?

What happened to the 'common sense' Malcanus that used to make fun of people for saying that isk is free because all you need to do is shoot rats all day? Are you now of the opinion that minerals are free as well if you mine them yourself?

Besides that the comparison is between the people that buy ISK from CCP legit or out of game against the EULA. What's the difference besides one gets you a wallet drop and maybe, that's maybe, get a short ban if you are caught. Neither method of RMT, the good or the bad, increase the overall ISK in the game.

Stop with the apples and oranges, Mal.

Sheesh, buddy. You are losing it.

Mr Epeen Cool