Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You do realize there's a huge difference between that extra ship being a force multiplier (like logistic ship or recon) and yet another generic combat vessel, right

You (CCP) thinking it's impossible to fight 1 vs 10+ doesn't mean it's indeed impossible. What makes it impossible are one-sided game 'features' like current ECM, damping, OP RRing etc. which allow those in superior numbers to render opposing ship(s) completely (!) useless.

Cannot wait. It's gonna be epic.

Please can we have a nice redesign of how the ships look to go with it? Make them look more Logistic-y... =X

Remove that 50% rep bonus and it should be fine, they just seem a bit to strong for the minimal skills they require to fly.
Maybe slow them down a bit more and lower there locking range, so that you can outplay them with a Sensordamp(which needs more good targets) think that would be a nice way.
I would love to see a T1 Frig gang of Merlins and Bantams

As with most things lately, I am very torn...

Things like frigate gangs (and cloaky gangs) could be encouraged by enabling Logistics options. At the same time the potential problems are numerous: It's a staggering problem that just more and more powerful tools are given to such affordable ships, loss cease to matter. It's styles that are already powerful or have existing options, even though it is not perhaps popular: for example, there are already creative groups who have discovered that Logistics Cruisers have small base-sigs and can easily be run dualpropped or (oversized-) AB, letting them run with frigate gangs under "frigate sigs".

Giving them the whole treatment Cruisers always had seem unlikely as well, since you appear to have abandoned that design principle (of making certain ships stepping stones, and let them come pre-nerfed; such as Logi-cruisers without cap-bonuses, which in turn are only available Tech II). That's obviously one way to do it, but it feels unlikely given your (CCP's) design trends of making "small and Tech I" viable on a broad level. Specialist tools tend to come with a pricetag.

A more difficult interpretation is meta-game: Letting (Tech II-) Frigate gangs do what Cruiser gangs once did at cheaper cost on more nimble hulls could provide an option inbetween larger heavier fleets (that the Cruisers of today have trouble measuring up to, when used right). That could possibly also bridge gaps and plug that dynamic, where a popularity in frigate-sized roaming gangs would open up a target pool for Cruiser equivalents again (food-chain, ecosystem, butterflies).

That involves such things trending though, and today the game is polarizing instead which leaves questions as to wether frigate-sized Logistics encouraging mobile gangs like that would be enough for it to take root. They would be more agile and cheaper options but at the same time they would not be as flexible, they would not have as broad target pools and they would equally not have a more target rich environment to begin with. That make them gimmicks and only emphasize current trends where small ships and gangs do their thing and large gangs do their thing (so the best course of roaming is to look for ganks, peers and evasion). In essence, it could go both ways, either bridging interactive gaps or tear them up.

Let things like old nano in contrast to current cloaky gangs and their profileration serve as a reminder here.

The cloaky gangs of today are used nowhere near as interactively as oldschool nano once was.

*Sigh*

I would rather you got T1 "logistics cruisers" right before you even consider haring off making a NEW logistics ship. It's not like logi isn't already detrimental to solo and small gang warfare, and that's hard enough to engage in and teach as it is!

And it's not just about the actual fighting, but the perception too. One line of high-SP T2 Logi are a pretty big disincentive to engage already when you see or suspect them, now we are staring down 3 lines. We need to encourage people to take the plunge, not create more ways and excuses to discourage them.

If this doesn't work, you're wasting your effort, and if it does you're wasting our time. Frigate PvP is already a bit of a high-wire act and if it works this just swings it further one way or the other.

I like the base of the idea very much, but not the weapons, because it's breaking the idea to field more than 1 shiptype. I can already imagine swarms of logi frig fleets.

Very happy to see this as (so far) the T1 frig re-balancing has been a great boon for these underused hulls. Makes FW much more interesting.

I like this as it will be a wall that many new Amarr pilots wont want to climb to fly the Vengeance (cross training lasers to missiles). Less people flying my ship of choice is a good thing. Id never fly the t1 rocket version of the Vengeance anyways.

Why do three races lose their mining frigate but Amarr lose their missile frigate?

It should be the tormentor, the fact that it's all ready been turned into the punisher mk2 hints at a complete lack of forethought for these changes.

Oh yey won't EVE be fun when everything is the same. We can't have one damn frigate that's different from all the rest can we!

I await the Abaddon becoming the logistics BS.

bah your test i cant agree...

but




this!