These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Retriever prices
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Daria Meridian Carlile
Necromatic Inc.
#1 - 2012-08-20 14:01:38 UTC
This probably counts for all the barges, i just don't care about the other.


Been doing the numbers on the manufacturing cost of a Retriever a few times, and by my count the minimal production cost (aka value of minerals used in production) is 26,1 mill isk by jita prices.

Are all the retrievers on the market just excess stock from before the patch, or are the actually some fools manufacturing retrievers at a 7mill isk loss/unit?

Another possibility is of course that i've totally missed something, still i would like to sort this out :)
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#2 - 2012-08-20 14:20:05 UTC
I know from other games that people remarkably often craft/manufacture stuff which can't be sold for the value of the materials, let alone with profit. I think it's the urge to create something yourself.

I didn't think that kind of person would be found in Eve, though, so maybe you missed something after all, I don't know.
JohnathanGalt
Northern Sky Industries
#3 - 2012-08-20 14:32:30 UTC
If you look on these forums, you will see that there were people WAAAY smarter then I that built TONS of these things pre-patch, so thaey built them at the old mineral requirements. So they are not selling at a loss, but actually making a tidy profit.
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-08-20 14:45:24 UTC
Gumby Ambraelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-08-20 15:17:26 UTC
I got into the retriever building only 36 hrs before the patch release and built a few... I can imagine how many the guys who pay attention to this stuff built before the release.... sold the last of them yesterday..

I could easily see retrievers coming on the market slowly for the next month that were pre patch builds....
Caelis Boirelle
Aurora Investments
#6 - 2012-08-20 15:46:28 UTC
I'm not logged in to check the graphs to give you a more accurate comment but from memory almost all the barges except for maybe the Hulk went on a massive price rollercoaster around patch time, the market went crazy.

But yeah, I'd wager it's due to stocks from patch speculators.

Aurora Investments is looking for an alliance to call home
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-08-20 18:09:17 UTC
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
This probably counts for all the barges, i just don't care about the other.


Been doing the numbers on the manufacturing cost of a Retriever a few times, and by my count the minimal production cost (aka value of minerals used in production) is 26,1 mill isk by jita prices.

Are all the retrievers on the market just excess stock from before the patch, or are the actually some fools manufacturing retrievers at a 7mill isk loss/unit?

Another possibility is of course that i've totally missed something, still i would like to sort this out :)


People made thousands of Retrievers prior to patch because of the increase in minerals. Most are still selling at the moment at x2 the mineral costs to manufacture them so they are still making great profits.

Don't expect players to start manufacturing more for several months. It will take quite a while for the previous stock be blown up or used in T2 manufacturing.
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#8 - 2012-08-20 19:15:21 UTC
You have to keep in mind that a month or two ago the build cost of a Retriever was closer to 7M and there were plenty of them on the market. So, some people built a ton of them but still other people just bought the old ones on the market and are now selling them for a hefty profit (even under build cost).

The bottom line is, demand is not being affected by build cost since the ship cannot be reprocessed for its full amount of minerals (if you reprocess a Retriever you get pre-patch minerals or about 7M). There is a fairly large-ish supply of Retrievers right now and only so much demand therefore the price has been pushed down below build cost. If you think it's bad, look at the Procurer's build cost vs market value. Lol

Another side effect of this: lack of incentive to build these ships affects the value of their BPOs. Sad
Herr Hammer Draken
#9 - 2012-08-21 05:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
This probably counts for all the barges, i just don't care about the other.


Been doing the numbers on the manufacturing cost of a Retriever a few times, and by my count the minimal production cost (aka value of minerals used in production) is 26,1 mill isk by jita prices.

Are all the retrievers on the market just excess stock from before the patch, or are the actually some fools manufacturing retrievers at a 7mill isk loss/unit?

Another possibility is of course that i've totally missed something, still i would like to sort this out :)


The supply of prebuilt procurers is huge, more than 1 year supply exsists, mostly in peoples hangers, and only about a 3week supply is currently listed for sale, the rest are being held in reserve by the builders. They were all built cheap pre patch.
It will take over 1 year of real time to use up this supply maybe even longer as they are not likely to get killed very fast.
So you really rely upon new players to use up this supply.

For the retriever they were not as heavily overbuilt. Maybe 6 months supply of those exsist and again only about a 3 week supply is exposed to the market at this moment in time. They are easier to kill than the procurer is so it is likely that supply will set used up faster than the procurer supply will. It also seems to be the go to miner ship for new solo players that mine. So demand may be higher for them as well. Again these were prebuilt at cheap construction prices.

It will be quite a while before any new construction of these mining ships can be done profitably.

Find a different market for the next year. These are saturated.

Although for a trader good money can be made hauling these ships from major market hubs out to remote markets.
The prices are higher out away from major market hubs. Hint the huge over supply of these come from only a few players that prebuilt these in numbers like 10,000 retrievers or 20,000 procurers each. It is a huge job for a single player to move all their product all over eve. So they do not do it and that is where traders come in.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Daria Meridian Carlile
Necromatic Inc.
#10 - 2012-08-21 06:40:32 UTC
Well, thank you for the mass of replies! :)

I am aware that people mass-produced them before the patch, personally got 50 laying in my hangar.

Just had not realized the scale, haha.

So, basically, manufacturing new mining barges will not be profitable for ~ a year?
Riyal
invidious Squid
#11 - 2012-08-21 09:11:49 UTC
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
Well, thank you for the mass of replies! :)

I am aware that people mass-produced them before the patch, personally got 50 laying in my hangar.

Just had not realized the scale, haha.

So, basically, manufacturing new mining barges will not be profitable for ~ a year?


It depends, if the 'extra' materials are intergrated into blueprints then it could be sooner. The trouble will be that manufacturers operating on the 'minerals I mine are free' principle will not be controled by a correct reprocess value, even after the pre-patch stockpiles have gone.

In hindsight my post should have had more psssshhhh
Daria Meridian Carlile
Necromatic Inc.
#12 - 2012-08-21 14:36:41 UTC
Riyal wrote:
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
Well, thank you for the mass of replies! :)

I am aware that people mass-produced them before the patch, personally got 50 laying in my hangar.

Just had not realized the scale, haha.

So, basically, manufacturing new mining barges will not be profitable for ~ a year?


It depends, if the 'extra' materials are intergrated into blueprints then it could be sooner. The trouble will be that manufacturers operating on the 'minerals I mine are free' principle will not be controled by a correct reprocess value, even after the pre-patch stockpiles have gone.


The extra minerals will probably not be integrated, if they were then every maker of a pre-patch mining barge would pull it off the market and reprocess it for minerals.


The "'minerals I mine are free'" attitude is a mental defect, people who live by it can't possibly have any real pull that can affect the market.

Fact of the matter is, the minerals used to produce a Retriever is worth about 26 million, no matter if you bought them or mined then so, it would be better to just sell the minerals instead of making them into something worth 30% less ( Duh, i know.. but some people don't)
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#13 - 2012-08-21 15:31:54 UTC
Retrievers and Procurers, especially, will take many months to run through the excess surplus that people ran prior to the patch. Until then, people will be selling them below the current material costs because they are going for a substantial profit over the previous material costs.

End of the day, some people made 1000s of pre-patch barges and, truthfully, there isn't a huge daily volume on them since everyone has gotten them - so it will take a while to clear out. I would say look at the costs to covert some the Macks but the Mack prices have come back down to a reasonable amount from where they were (again comparative to the new material costs).