Warfare & Tactics

It means that either his targets can't dock in a station or he can't play docking games there. CCP have ruined his ability to camp station undocks in a machariel in complete safety

There is a special place in hell for the first person who capitalised the 'plex' in 'plexing.

I just feel sorry for the Amarr and FATE pilots that actually type coherent and rational arguments only to have a post from Maud, DCM, Bad Messenger etc. next to it. Makes it harder to be objective from an opposing side when you have to put up with that.



Anyway, we knew from before the patch when we made our land grab that this could mean reduced enemies to shoot if we did crush Amarr and many people were very clear from the start that we should be careful if we wanted to keep any WTs to fight. However many people were already disappointed with the amount of PVP we were getting from Amarr compared to how much we were getting just from random neutrals. Anyway a month or two before patch day and it became clear quite how rich we could be, coupled with the very small resistance we were experiencing on TQ it seemed inevitable that Amarr morale was going rapidly downhill. There were a few blips when it spiked up again and we might have a real fight on our hands (the pre-emptive Kamela attack + SOTF response and the Nulli incident) but generally its continued downwards since then.


I'm not saying "we don't care" because FATE have given us good fights, but you try and project an aura of nonchalance towards FW all you are getting is a reflection of that back at you. We need you to care about FW for us to care about you. The WBR we fought a year ago that was dominating us, now I wouldn't have traded that for T5, but we are talking about an entity that seems more interested in SCs and toying with Null than a good old cruiser/BC/BS brawl of old. (Which, BTW is fine you play Eve how you want, just don't lump all the blame on us)


All I'm saying is it isn't entirely our fault we have lost some WTs, when most of your ops are 3 bridges away in some far off null you can see why we might chose to give that up.

Welcome to FW. It wasn't a bad performance at all for the first day. As people were commenting on minnie comms, you guys were picking up on things a lot faster than most null-sec groups entering FW do.

While the Kourm/Kamela op was unusual in terms of activity and participation (it was a rather historical event for a lot of Minnie pilots, after all), I hope you keep getting good fights out of FW.

Yes the mechanics are a disaster, while the millions of plexing alts do help us in the sov war, its of course not something I would have chosen, they are probably almost as much of a pain to us as you. I hope soon(TM) CCP will realise the disaster that as Inferno and give us a sensible FW system back

All my post was trying to say was through all of this we have lost some (real) targets to shoot, but I don't think that is entirely down to our poor WT managing (which was a consideration).

In simplest terms from my point of view: it wasn't worth trying to keep a place for you in FW (READ - through letting up on the boring stuff and working to keep it fun, NOT - OMG we can could kick you out whenever we want with our L33t PvP) when FW seemed to be a secondary concern for you at the time. Why go to the effort when it wasn't yielding the GFs for us at the time.

Of course I'm sure Kourmonen the other night reminds us why we joined FW and why we would be sad to lose you, which is oddly nothing to do with FW and if CCP are to be believed the opposite of what they want from it (e.g. no caps). Of course I hope fights like that will continue to happen regardless of who is in FW. I am gutted to have missed it. Inferno should have focused on fights like that rather than rifters.

Tthere are no core systems according to the tier system. All systems count the same according to the dev blog. But beyond that it wasn't fighting for kamela kourmonen or huola that made the amarr say f this. It was seeing the all the backwater systems get so heavilly contested so fast the very next day. And what do we see when we go back there? Armadas of t1 figates running majors.

What is the point of fighting for core systems, whatever you think that means, when the war is going to be won by the alt army?

I will ask you the same thing I asked vordak. What percent of plexes do you think were capped by t1 frigates?

I mean we can keep using relative terms all we want. I can say "too much" of it is farm alts. You can say things like "the real war was won with pvp."

But what are the actual numbers?

Post inferno what sort of ships capped what sort of plexes for each faction. How many majors did amarr capture using a single frigate? How many majors did minmatar capture using this? Etc. I would Love to see a break down of this. Because I think it will show that over seventy percent of plexes minmatar captured were in frigates.

But before we get these actual numbers what do you think a legitimate spread would be?

I think a legitimate spread would be that minors are run by frigates and destroyers and account for at least 1/3 of the total plexes. Mediums would be run by cruisers fifty percent of the time and by afs about thirty percent and the rest can be frigate destroyers. Mediums should account for about 1/3 of plexes run. Majors Run by BSes bcs or hacs about fifty percent of the time thirty percent by cruisers and the rest smaller ships the 2 types of majors will account for about the remaining 1/3 of pelxes. I also think there should be somone scrammed or blown up in at least every other plex run if we want to call this a pvp mechanic.

That is what I think is a legitimate win. Instead I think we will find that the minmatar ran many more majors in frigates than amarr did. I think we will find that no one fought in eighty percent of the plexes run. Most plexing involves hiding from the enemy and orbiting the button. I think we will find that Minmatar ran at least seventy percent of their plexes in frigates and destroyers. Winning at this is not something to be proud of unless you are proud of your carebearing.

do you people honestly think that if farmers were reduced, by say 50%, that all of a sudden, FW will fill up with pure PVP players?

So ive read through this thread and have heard whining, trolling, anger, frustration and disappointment but nothing that reembles a solution. I spoke recently with Some friends that had issue with a decision that was made and I'll say here what I said to them. If you have a problem with something, then you must have an idea for a solution so formulate that into a suggestion supported by logic.

You complain that CCP is to blame, that nullsec influence is too great and that an RPing CSM has had too much impact in the current state of FW. Well then you need to present a better solution; a better plan. A few ideas were presented at fanfest by us that perhaps a dev would be willing to comment on; I know he wrote them down.

I know we (Lost Obsession) having left FW now are happily done with button spinning, but we still live in Kamela and will be around for the fighting, so I hope to see you all on the battlefield.

Goonswarm did nothing, they probably never even captured a single plex, all they did was exploit a load of LP for themselves, which probably hurt the minmatar as it meant our LP items were less valuable.

The Geography is an issue, but it is not insurmountable. As was clearly demonstrated, Nulli moved into Metro and quickly conquered the vast majority of it. It just takes some dedication to make the move and commit. There aren't a lot of Amarr groups who are interested in doing that.

Goons did nothing except take advantage of existing circumstances in order to make a lot of money and subsequently get it confiscated by CCP.

I tend to agree with the fact that Goons wern't part of the minmatar crushing the Amarr. They picked the side with the more systems / highest probability to hit T5 due to minnis already dominating Amarr and blew up freighters. They might of helped with the t5 pushes which might have been shorter / less frequent without them but as for system occupation I doubt they had a real impact.

As we plan to stay in Kamela the geographics remain a concern for me and I would love to see an extra route or two into the minmatar systems because minnis being like everyone else the moment they see your cruiser gang go through hof they get a camp up and you are often stuffed (I hate high sec travel).

This will probably not change the occupation but would make the warzone more fun imho.