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So why is 20% of the game's population representing the entire CSM?

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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-08-20 06:40:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
How strange a interest group is against more people voting.

They WHY is fairly easy its either laziness, apathy, misinformation or ignorance.

As I have said the population of EvE needs to be educated about the CSM and why they need to vote.


It depends what you want, I guess. More votes or more people participating. If you just want more votes, do the login screen thing - you'll have higher numbers and the same level of general apathy towards the CSM. If you actually truly do want more people participating though, it's going to take more thought than a popup on login that would be ignored if it didn't force a choice.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#82 - 2012-08-20 06:54:16 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
How strange a interest group is against more people voting.

They WHY is fairly easy its either laziness, apathy, misinformation or ignorance.

As I have said the population of EvE needs to be educated about the CSM and why they need to vote.


It depends what you want, I guess. More votes or more people participating. If you just want more votes, do the login screen thing - you'll have higher numbers and the same level of general apathy towards the CSM. If you actually truly do want more people participating though, it's going to take more thought than a popup on login that would be ignored if it didn't force a choice.

Yes it will the voting screen with a blurb is only one thing I have recommended, I would also like to see

  • CSM Billboards in EvE space
  • A CSM Website
  • A monthly to two monthly spam mail sent out like CCP spam, With a letter from the chairman with blurbs from a couple of other members as to the direction they would like to see, ideas ect.
  • Year long pop up ads on login put into the rotation with a link to above website.

The basic idea is to educate the EvE population first then if they still want to abstain let them.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#83 - 2012-08-20 08:45:31 UTC
You could make it simple, a CSM message is always present at the beginning of local chat. Like how other channels have the long descriptions or funny stuff. Local just talks about the CSM or how many days to vote.

Problem solved.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#84 - 2012-08-20 10:08:03 UTC
rodyas wrote:
You could make it simple, a CSM message is always present at the beginning of local chat. Like how other channels have the long descriptions or funny stuff. Local just talks about the CSM or how many days to vote.

Problem solved.

That would be a massive spam every time you jumped between systems.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#85 - 2012-08-20 11:22:02 UTC
Fine then add subliminal messages to the EVE's music and EVE-radio that say read about the CSM and find out more information pertaining to them. Also worship satan more.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#86 - 2012-08-20 12:33:23 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Also worship satan more.

Nah that is for illiterate babies, I prefer to worship that ***** Goddess Isk.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#87 - 2012-08-21 03:38:43 UTC
But how are you gonna get more Isk? This is where satan worhsip really shines.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Frying Doom
#88 - 2012-08-21 10:41:45 UTC
Well anyway back to the serious question of informing the EvE community about the CSM.

With any luck the CSM will not be too long before it releases the ideas its working on, not a complete work mind you but I would like to see the ideas they are looking at.

I would complain about the time with how long it took them to get the Summit minutes out but then I looked it up

It took them 2 months to release the 165 page minutes and the December Minutes took CSM6 1 month and 10 days to release 44 pages.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#89 - 2012-08-21 14:25:31 UTC
Frying, you can't force people to vote. While I have no problem with increased visability, last election ccp forced EVERY SINGLE PLAYER to see a vote csm splash on the load screen. You can't do much more than that. anything more is overly obtrusive.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2012-08-21 14:58:18 UTC
OP, Easy Answer:


If there are so many more people in HS, then why dont they apply and get nominated/voted in for CSM?


Well, because most people in HighSec don't know about the CSM or don't care. They are here simply to play the game the way they want and not bother about whats going on around them. Not trying to be mean or rude, but its a fact. The majority of people in HS are just casual players that really could care less. You have a small minority of HighSec players that actually do care and are LOUD about it on the forums. But there are too few of them.

If you are putting the effort in to getting into a nullsec alliance and carving out a niche in nullsec, then you are probably not a 'casual' player. As such, you are more interested and affected by the CSM.

Simple.

FC, what do?
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#91 - 2012-08-21 16:11:32 UTC
highonpop wrote:
If you are putting the effort in to getting into a nullsec alliance and carving out a niche in nullsec, then you are probably not a 'casual' player. As such, you are more interested and affected by the CSM.


Also, if you're a casual and you're in high sec, things are pretty good. There isn't crazy ISK, but with a reasonable amount of effort you can make enough to get the ships you want and keep playing, which is enough. If you want to blow things up, neither lowsec nor nullsec are far away.

If you live in nullsec, there are signs of broken and unfinished mechanics everywhere, and if you're working hard to make it, those obstacles are particularly glaring--hands up, everyone who loves a good structure bash (there's gotta be someone out there). Hands up, everyone who likes a sov system that leaves huge swaths of nullsec completely empty. Hands up, everyone who likes the effect that tech moons have had. And so on.

It's no surprise that the CSM consists of candidates from areas that needed fixing last winter--even the ones that really don't, like wormholes, have a candidate that is raring to fix POSes, which are the one aspect of WH life that is genuinely and needlessly painful. If the most broken parts of the game have representatives championing their reform on the CSM, that means the system is working pretty well.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Frying Doom
#92 - 2012-08-21 23:39:59 UTC
Blastil wrote:
Frying, you can't force people to vote. While I have no problem with increased visability, last election ccp forced EVERY SINGLE PLAYER to see a vote csm splash on the load screen. You can't do much more than that. anything more is overly obtrusive.

Yes having a blurb to read and two clicks once a year is so obtrusive.

It is not forcing people to vote but forcing education on people. Then if they choose to vote well then that is their choice.

Ignorance in this only serves minority groups and not the game as a whole. I often see quotes on the forums like "Everyone agrees" ect.. but the truth is we really don't know. The number of people who don't know what the CSM is or believe it is just for Null secers is staggering.

Every year the CSM become more integrated into the CCP development process and All players need to be aware of what this means for their game.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#93 - 2012-08-22 02:11:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Frying Doom wrote:
Blastil wrote:
Frying, you can't force people to vote. While I have no problem with increased visability, last election ccp forced EVERY SINGLE PLAYER to see a vote csm splash on the load screen. You can't do much more than that. anything more is overly obtrusive.

Yes having a blurb to read and two clicks once a year is so obtrusive.

It is not forcing people to vote but forcing education on people. Then if they choose to vote well then that is their choice.

Ignorance in this only serves minority groups and not the game as a whole. I often see quotes on the forums like "Everyone agrees" ect.. but the truth is we really don't know. The number of people who don't know what the CSM is or believe it is just for Null secers is staggering.

Every year the CSM become more integrated into the CCP development process and All players need to be aware of what this means for their game.


Yeah I see some of the mechanics discussed as to be for people who are "casual players" and they are the worst in the catagory IMO, they rarely use their time to educate themselves in something so offbeat as the CSM, truthfully I think it would be worse if they were made to vote.

I think one of the biggest fundamental failures of the democratic system is the allowance and in many cases forcing uneducated people to vote on matters they know nothing about - and thus are blatantly lied to and misdirected.

Forcing people to vote would be to throw votes to the people who could yell loudest on any issue.

.
Frying Doom
#94 - 2012-08-22 04:59:39 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:


Yeah I see some of the mechanics discussed as to be for people who are "casual players" and they are the worst in the catagory IMO, they rarely use their time to educate themselves in something so offbeat as the CSM, truthfully I think it would be worse if they were made to vote.

I think one of the biggest fundamental failures of the democratic system is the allowance and in many cases forcing uneducated people to vote on matters they know nothing about - and thus are blatantly lied to and misdirected.

Forcing people to vote would be to throw votes to the people who could yell loudest on any issue.

As it would mean that the people who are "Yelling the loudest" would have to do so in the game and just by doing this causing players to be more educated than they currently are.

Also on Yelling the loudest, isn't that exactly what politicians do in countries where voting is not compulsory, like the united states. They have massive ad campaigns and go around drooling on babies and have debates with sound bite editing.

Forcing the uneducated masses to read a blurb about voting and then letting them decide if they wish to vote or not to is a good thing even for casual players as the CSM helps to guide the game towards the future. The blurb its self should be a document about the CSM and its role. The voting page should contain the usual lies and huge egos.

And it is there game as much as it is ours, they deserve education and the right to make an informed choice on whether or not to vote. Denying casual gamers and the non-forum users is just allowing minorities and special interest groups the ability to steer the game there way possibility in a direction ill suited for the majority of the player base.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#95 - 2012-08-22 06:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Personally, I prefer to have the most informed decisions being made, not the penny-ante "I read the brochure" crowd deciding who should be a CSM.

Although, at present the "most informed" decision is being made by the "I read 2 brochures" crowd instead ;)

.
Frying Doom
#96 - 2012-08-22 06:49:46 UTC
The current CSM election set up reminds me of Black Adder III, Episode 1

Dish and Dishonesty

At Mrs. Miggins' home

Edmund Blackadder: Well, Mrs. Miggins, at last we can return to sanity. The hustings are
over, the bunting is down, the mad hysteria is at an end. After the
chaos of a general election, we can return to normal.

Mrs. Miggins: Oh, has there been a general election, then, Mr. Blackadder?

Edmund Blackadder: Indeed there has, Mrs. Miggins.

Mrs. Miggins: Oh, well, I never heard about it.

Edmund Blackadder: Well of course you didn't; you're not eligible to vote.

Mrs. Miggins: Well, why not?

Edmund Blackadder: Because virtually no-one is: women, peasants, (looks at Baldrick)
chimpanzees (Baldrick looks behind himself, trying to see the animal),
lunatics, Lords...

Baldrick: That's not true -- Lord Nelson's got a vote!

Edmund Blackadder: He's got a *boat*, Baldrick. Marvelous thing, democracy. Look at
Manchester: population, 60,000; electoral roll, 3.

Mrs. Miggins: Well, I may have the brain the size of a sultana(sp?)...

Edmund Blackadder: Correct...

Mrs. Miggins: ...but it hardly seems fair to me.

Edmund Blackadder: Of course it's not fair -- and a damn good thing too. Give the like of
Baldrick the vote and we'll be back to cavorting druids, death by
stoning, and dung for dinner.

Baldrick: Oh, I'm having dung for dinner tonight.

Mrs. Miggins: So, who are they electing when they have these elections?

Edmund Blackadder: Ah, the same old (?): fat tory landowners who get made MPs when
they reach a certain weight; raving revolutionaries who think that just
because they do a day's work that somehow gives them the right to get
paid... Basically, it's a right old mess. Toffs at the top, plebs at the
bottom, and me in the middle making a fat pile of cash out of both of them.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-08-22 08:59:13 UTC
How so?

Everyone gets a vote per account on the csm.

If people choose not to vote that is their choice. Sure the voting system needs tweaking in one way or another but its not excluding anyone.

One point to add though is what has csm 6 or 7 done that's bad? The changes they champion are great and much needed. The only thing they've not promoted is better single player content in the form of missions. But so what, EVE is an MMO and missions were never meant to be some solo grinding experience anyway.
Frying Doom
#98 - 2012-08-22 09:17:07 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
How so?

Everyone gets a vote per account on the csm.

If people choose not to vote that is their choice. Sure the voting system needs tweaking in one way or another but its not excluding anyone.

One point to add though is what has csm 6 or 7 done that's bad? The changes they champion are great and much needed.

This is the problem

I may like what they champion and you may like it but given the fact it is normally only 17-18% that Vote how do we possibly know what the remaining 82-83% would actually like. For all we know they want pink unicorns in the game.

Everyone in the game gets one vote per account, for those who know what the CSM is and what it actually does and the fact that lots of people seem to think it's only for Null sec residences.

Having the populous having to learn about the CSM will actually make for a more representative CSM and a better game for All players.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-08-22 11:03:42 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Having the populous having to learn about the CSM will actually make for a more representative CSM and a better game for All players.


This is of course making the very bold assumption that this 82-83% of the game doesn't vote because they're unaware of the CSM and what it does, rather than not voting because they know and don't care to participate for any number of reasons.

(hint: a forced "vote" or "abstain" button doesn't fix this at all)

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#100 - 2012-08-22 11:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Having the populous having to learn about the CSM will actually make for a more representative CSM and a better game for All players.


This is of course making the very bold assumption that this 82-83% of the game doesn't vote because they're unaware of the CSM and what it does, rather than not voting because they know and don't care to participate for any number of reasons.

(hint: a forced "vote" or "abstain" button doesn't fix this at all)

Actually a forced Inform will make it so all the players are aware of the role of the CSM as well as giving us actual figures on the 'don't care' population. Rather than just assuming they either unaware or don't care.

Biggest problem is I know a percentage of players don't know or believe it is a null sec thing, while you presume I am making the assumption 82-83% doesn't vote because they're unaware of the CSM and what it does.
All I have said is that "17-18% that Vote how do we possibly know what the remaining 82-83% would actually like"

(hint: forced information will inform more people(A forced Blub does fix this, if it is well worded))

Note: Its amazing, I must be psychic, I knew members of minorities would object. How strange.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!