My EVE

The couple of dozen or so who might vote based on this are sure to swing the polls.

Are you really going to play the race card?

If you say you're proud to be straight, or proud to be white, everyone gets offended and everyone views you as a supremacist.

If you say you're proud to be part of any minority, trans, black, etc, people think you're some sort of equality activist. The last 50 years haven't just seen civil rights and equality, but also exploiting the majority's guilt has taken it several steps to far. Minority communities don't deserve any special treatment.

That's why groups like this annoy me. Having a trans group seems equivalent to having a straight and white group. Wouldn't that bother you?

Non-cis what?

I'm Canadian. To each their own. I'm glad my country allows same-sex marriage ... but what is with all the acronyms?

Someone should form a group for those people that identify as metrosexual.

Ultimately, this seems to be a nice big post of you trying to justify why minorities are entitled to special treatment. How about we judge people based on their merits or accomplishments instead? Honestly, you can't say that straight white people haven't experienced any additional hurdles related to institutionalized shaming, because that just isn't the case. It's entirely possible for minorities to be raised in supporting environments, and it's entirely possible for a straight white child to be hated for any number of reasons. Some parents just hate their kids. Some kids just hate other kids. You don't have to have any specific skin color, income bracket, or sexual preference to be bullied or hated.

I can say, specifically, that saw a great deal of bullying growing up. Your point on bullying is entirely invalid, since non-LGBT people encounter it too. Maybe you were one of the luck few to never get your head slammed into a locker or shoved down the stairs. Lucky you.

What I can say about bullying though, was it was occasionally directed at students of various sexuality, but usually it was just directed at whoever didn't fit in, regardless of their sexual orientation or skin color. More often than not it'd be based on your parent's income or the clothing you wore, not your race or your sexuality. Kids pick out what's most obvious, and schools today are far too integrated for race to be a factor. If they were 99% white it'd be one thing... but in my state Caucasians are only 66% of the population, and african americans are 28%. There's virtually no distinguishable difference between being raised one or the other. If 2/3rds of the class in highschool is white, 1/3rd is black, and no one knows anyone's sexual orientation (because most people don't care to parade what they do in bed), then kids are just going to pick on whoever sticks out the most. Usually, that's based on what someone wears, how they talk, or who their friends are. Things that visibly make them unpopular.

In cities near where I live it's also become common place for hate crimes to occur against rich straight white individuals. You're obviously not familiar with "yuppie hate crime" as it's referred to, but there's just as much, if not more discrimination against the straight white group, particularly the wealthier ones. I'm not sure what type of rose-colored shades you're wearing to pretend that there isn't just as much hate crime against straight white people.

I also don't know what type of background you came from the claim that you faced "additional life hurdles", because frankly, most minorities and people of alternative sexual preference flat out won't. They'll grow up the same as anyone else. I had friends of other races, and friends of other sexual preferences, and quite a few of them had significantly less trouble than I did. So don't tell me I can't relate. All you're doing is justifying special treatment for LGBT and minorities that flat out isn't deserved. I guarantee you that if we sat down and compared how "difficult" our lives were, that we both had our hardships... and combined, no one in this thread suffered anything remotely serious, given by the fact that we're here today, literate, and have internet access, and $15 a month to spend on EVE (which puts us all in the world's wealthiest 1%).

So I'll say it again: Why can't their be a straight gamers of eve group? What's wrong with straight pride? If gay people or trans people can be proud of who they are, why can't straight people make a group where they take pride in themselves? There's no contemptuousness there; it has nothing to do with disdain or scorn of others; pride is an inward-emotion in this case, about feeling good about one's self. Gay pride and straight pride are no different; it's about feeling that what you are is fine, accepted, and needn't be changed.

Anyways, sure, there are hate crimes against minority groups out there. But it doesn't affect everyone in that group... it's just isolated cases that get overblown. The individual doesn't deserve special, or even equal treatment for that. (Equal treatment is communism!) Instead, they should earn the same rewards as any other individual, based on their own merits.

TL;DR: People hate straight people too.

And that's all I have to say. We've quickly managed to derail this entire thread, which... also isn't necessarily a bad thing, seeing as it probably wasn't the best way to start this group in the first place.

Your naivety is astounding.

In a perfect world there would be no need for any sort of "gay pride" or "black pride" group, because there would be no discrimination.

But we don't live in that world, we live in a world that is flooded with discrimination and hate based on race, gender and sexuality, and almost none of it is directed at straight white males. Sure there is some retaliatory discrimination, but in a country like the US or Australia (where I am from) it is far from anything that would be considered a problem. Straight, white men do not need a "straight white man pride" group because they have not been the targets of discrimination on any serious scale in recent western history, they have been the ones doing the discriminating. A primary school history education can tell you that.

Btw, how do you think African Americans gained the rights they have in the USA in the first place? Oh yeah, they formed a protest group based on their race.

According the FBI hate crime statistics for 2010:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2010/narratives/hate-crime-2010-victims
I'm not going to copy/paste the whole thing here, but I'd like to point out some of the hate crimes against commonly accepted groups:






How is this not a problem?

You're calling me naive? There are hard statistics here. You don't have to be transgender, of a minority skin color, or of an alternative sexual preference for people to hate you. People just hate each other. Whites, straights, christians, etc, deserve just as much special treatment as any other group, because they're just as subject to hate crimes. There may be less of them, at current, for any number of reasons, but they still exist and are quite frequent. No group deserves to have more pride or to feel persecuted that much more, as long as hate crimes are being targeted at everyone.

So I'll ask, once again, what makes this group any more valid than the straight group, or a white group?

Sure, hate crimes against the LGBT community are more common, that doesn't make them more significant, and it certainly doesn't make them more important. It certainly don't think we can invalidate any concern or hate crime just because it's less frequent.

There were still 21 hate crimes against heterosexuals, 111 hate crimes against Christians, and a staggering 699 hate crimes against whites in the US during 2010. Just because there were more hate crimes against other groups doesn't make the crimes that were committed against these groups any less important.

If one of those 21 straight individuals to a stand for himself, or herself, would you really tell them not to seek support from a group, because showing any "pride" would belittle the validity of LGBT groups? If anything, what you're suggesting is demeaning to LGBT groups, simply because you're painting them as inconsiderate of the issues that effect straight people.

Besides, the OP didn't say "Persecuted trans gamers of Eve", so your requirement that a group face additional hardship to be valid is somewhat moot in the first place. There are plenty of people who could potentially join TGOE who may have had a perfectly cushy life with no gender-identity related persecution whatsoever. So them getting an exclusive pride group while straight people can't certainly doesn't make sense.

Additionally, my point in posting these statistics was to prove that these hate crimes are a very real issue; not to compare "who has the bigger issue", because hate crimes are an issue regardless of how frequent they're occurring, simply by the fact that they are occurring.

If you really want to tell those 699 white people that the crimes committed against them don't matter as much as the crimes committed against another community, then go right ahead. But you really don't have the right to make that call.

These aren't incredibly low numbers. Comparing 7.2% (christian) to 12.7% Islam or 9.1% other, these numbers are all relatively close to each other on the overall scale... are you going to say that Christians or Muslims suffering persecution don't have the right to stand up for themselves simply because MORE Jewish people suffer persecution? That doesn't seem fair.

Sure, there's only one hate crime against whites in the US for every 3-4 hate crimes against blacks... but that's still within an order of magnitude. White's are still the second-most persecuted race within the US. And they have every bit as much pride as any other group.

ah don't worry mr straight, white, christian man. you may have been a victim of a horrific hate crime, but at least it's not commonplace! lets tackle the real issues here, a small group of people want to go against nature and biology are being called freakish for promoting their views in public!

Nature and Biology has no purposeful will, nor intent. You cannot go "against" something that has no actual purpose or will in the first place.

Btw, you and Lilliana are missing the entire picture here. We are talking about a group formed to support a minority that faces extreme levels of intolerance on a large scale. Of course any hate crime is just as important as another hate crime no matter who the victim is, even if they were a white straight man... on a personal level. We're not talking about the personal here, we are talking about societal wide issues. 1.4% of sexuality related hate crime targeted at heterosexuals (as referenced from the FBI statistics) is hardly a societal issue.

People don't form gay pride or "TGoE" groups because a small number of them were victims of hate. They are formed because a lot of LBGT people face discrimination in some form or another every day.

Besides, TGoE isn't even a protest group, its merely a chat channel. So the idea that this is somehow hostile and offensive towards non-transexual people is utterly ridiculous.

The thing is, you're going into their space, that they've set up to be apart from the daily bullshit they have to go through where people invalidate their identity and tell them they aren't really men, or aren't really women, to impose your view on them there. There are times and places for that kind of debate, but going into someone's home turf for it isn't the best approach, surely you can understand that.