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Rules of Engagement

Author
Arrakis Fremen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-20 04:33:31 UTC
As I was finishing a lvl 4 mission at Dodixie a Catalyst showed up and started taking the loot from my wrecks, which made her turn red to me. I was in a Domi at the time but decided not to engage her in case she had back up cloaked near by. My question is if I shot at her what kinda of senarios could occur? This is the first time I have someone enter my mission. Bit of a noob here but how did she find me? What are my options? I was a bit pissed that someone came and started taking my loot. Since I had just finished with the mission I returned to the station and came back with my Noctis. I was able to get about 6 mil of loot and salvage from a mission I should have got around 12 mil. Is there something I can do in the future to prevent this? She was from a corp called Suddenly Ninjas so I assume this is what they do to make ISK. Should I avoid running missions from major hubs to reduce the chance of this happing again?
Hypercake Mix
#2 - 2012-08-20 04:49:01 UTC
Ninja salvagers. Your best option is to move to a quieter mission system.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#3 - 2012-08-20 05:09:20 UTC
Happens to me a bit in Dodixie as well, and once or twice (ever) in adjacent systems.

They found you with combat probes, advanced versions of scanning probes that can find player ships.

In highsec, either they are in a disposable frigate and if you shoot at them the ship loss won't hurt them at all, or else they feel they have an overwhelming combat advantage and are looking for a fight.

I mission in a Dominix and so can usually spare two high slots for a tractor beam and salvager. But when I get a ninja salvager in my missions, I just blow up any of my wrecks that they will beat me to. If they are looking for a fight it tells them they won't get it, and if they are looking to steal, they also will get nothing.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2012-08-20 05:09:33 UTC
TEARS are actually fun guys. But yes, they wanted you to open fire. They make their big hauls on getting agro and then nuking mission ships.

As for how they found you... combat probes. It's ludicrously easy to locate and pinpoint high sec missioners as they pretty much never bother using dscan. And since you're working out of Dodixie, there are so many missioners around anyhow that you wouldn't know whether the probes were meant for you or not. (By the by, Suddenly Ninjas is based in Dodixie, so if you want to avoid them, move; not to Aunia as it's not nearly far enough).

How do you deal with them? Mostly ignore them. If you do decide to shoot, know full well there's backup coming quite shortly. It's not really a big deal for the most part. I usually blue my wrecks and see if I can trigger a new wave just to see where the agro lands. Well, actually I pretty much don't run missions anymore, but back when I did....
Rita May
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-08-20 12:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rita May
From my point of view you've made two mistakes:
First:
Arrakis Fremen wrote:
... a lvl 4 mission at Dodixie ...


Second:
Arrakis Fremen wrote:
... a lvl 4 mission at Dodixie ...
Blink

But you did the right thing in NOT shooting at him Smile

Best advice has already been given: Move somewhere quite(r).

cu
Arrakis Fremen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-08-20 17:35:07 UTC
Quote:
(By the by, Suddenly Ninjas is based in Dodixie, so if you want to avoid them, move; not to Aunia as it's not nearly far enough).


As it happens I did move to Aunia. Guess I'll go back to my normal missioning systems about 6 of 7 jumps away. I had just moved to Dodixie because this is where I take all my stuff to sell. Thought I would try the agent at Dodixie so I wouldn't have haul it there all the time. Oh well, this agent didn't pay as much anyway.
chapter13
Lannisters
#7 - 2012-09-06 13:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: chapter13
This is bad information.

It's my understanding that if they steal your loot and turn red, you can safely engage them. Any cloaky corpmates can not engage you, only them. they can have corp mates come in and rep them, but not engage you. So if you can pop them, do it. I got a heron doing that recently.

Salvaging is different. Wrecks are open for anyone to salvage, if they ninja salvage, they won't turn red and you can not engage. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

If they turn red from stealing your loot....pop 'em. thier corpies can't attack you for that.

If they have a solid ship and/or someone comes in to rep them during the fight, you may lose. Consider it before engaging.
chapter13
Lannisters
#8 - 2012-09-06 13:45:57 UTC
BTW, I got a sister scan probe launcher off the heron. Working the highly populated mission hubs and making these kills can have some benefits Twisted
Veryez
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-09-06 14:04:41 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

As for how they found you... combat probes. It's ludicrously easy to locate and pinpoint high sec missioners as they pretty much never bother using dscan. And since you're working out of Dodixie, there are so many missioners around anyhow that you wouldn't know whether the probes were meant for you or not.


Most of your post is good info, but this could easily be a bit misleading. Using dscan in dodi would never be helpful as you'll always see probes there. Using dscan will not keep you safe (safer yes, but not safe), a good prober will find you (and only you) in about a minute, if they know what they are doing. At best dscan might give you a minute warning before you are going to be attacked, hopefully you're not scrambled in a mission during that time.
chapter13
Lannisters
#10 - 2012-09-06 14:13:54 UTC
Veryez wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:

As for how they found you... combat probes. It's ludicrously easy to locate and pinpoint high sec missioners as they pretty much never bother using dscan. And since you're working out of Dodixie, there are so many missioners around anyhow that you wouldn't know whether the probes were meant for you or not.


Most of your post is good info, but this could easily be a bit misleading. Using dscan in dodi would never be helpful as you'll always see probes there. Using dscan will not keep you safe (safer yes, but not safe), a good prober will find you (and only you) in about a minute, if they know what they are doing. At best dscan might give you a minute warning before you are going to be attacked, hopefully you're not scrambled in a mission during that time.



You won't magically be attacked. They can't attack you unless you engage them first. If you're scrambled....don't.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#11 - 2012-09-06 14:20:56 UTC
The best advice here and you can see how many already posted it already, MOVE, MOVE, MOVE, go to a place where lvl 4 mission agents are spread over systems 1 or 2 jumps apart, remember cht salvagers are for the most part lazy which is why they resort to stealing from others, save a hi slot for a tractor to pull in large or valuable wrecks, loot them then come back in Noctis to salvage them, know that using a large BS especially very well known mission ships put you at the top of the list for theves to investigate.
chapter13
Lannisters
#12 - 2012-09-06 14:28:01 UTC
I don't understand why you would move? The worst case scenario here, if you don't engage, is someone steals your salvage (not loot). If you hustle a noctis in, you'll get most of it. If you can't, tractor beam and salvage on the spot, leave the loot, they can't take that without receiving aggro. If they do, pop them.

Engage, kill them. It's unlikely you'll lose a ship.

Most of these folks will have scan probes, launchers, etc. You'll make more than you lose over time. And it feels awesome besides. SHOOT THEM. They fact that so many people misunderstand the mechanics of this (thieving, aggro, etc) make these thieves complacent and easier targets.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-09-06 14:29:29 UTC
best advice so far is shooting the wrecks. this will show the ninja that you know the game and he won't get what he wants from you, no ISK and no PvP.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-09-06 14:31:17 UTC
The key is: if you shoot at the thief, then the thief (and probably corpmates waiting for the thief to call for backup) can blast away at you without worrying about CONCORD. And they'll probably be loaded to rip open a mission-fit ship.

Of course, if you've got your own corpmates looking for a scrap, you can always engage when the thief goes flashy, and then call your own backup to try and stomp on the gankers...

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

chapter13
Lannisters
#15 - 2012-09-06 14:34:41 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
The key is: if you shoot at the thief, then the thief (and probably corpmates waiting for the thief to call for backup) can blast away at you without worrying about CONCORD. And they'll probably be loaded to rip open a mission-fit ship.

Of course, if you've got your own corpmates looking for a scrap, you can always engage when the thief goes flashy, and then call your own backup to try and stomp on the gankers...



As I said above, the thief can engage, not the corpmates. They can rep him, not fight you. That's one of the misconceptions that keeps people from engaging. Shoot them....
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#16 - 2012-09-06 14:55:52 UTC
Finding quieter systems is a good start.

Unless you're willing to pick a fight against something built to murder a mission fit (even if he is not flying that at that moment), avoid engaging above all else. No single L4 is worth it in loot or salvage to risk loosing a mission boat in the likely chance that catalyst warps off the moment you sneeze in his direction and shows up a few minutes later in a gank-zilla.

On the other hand, if you're feeling lucky and don't give a damn, by all means lock'em up and go bananas...you will likely loose though.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

chapter13
Lannisters
#17 - 2012-09-06 15:00:47 UTC
You can choose whether to engage them or not based on the ship. If it's a frig...that's generally an easy call. Good point though, they could have a pvp fitted ship in local docked and come right back. That's a point to consider :)
DankoShepard
In Vino Veritas.
#18 - 2012-09-06 17:03:31 UTC
You can attack the thieve and the corpmates of that guy won't have the right to shoot at you.

If you decide to engage the thieve and you pop it then get to a safe place until timer goes off, that way he'll find nothing if he comes back in a pvp ship trying to kill your mission ship.

If you do not want to engage the thieve shoot at the wrecks, they'll get tired or bored and will leave you alone, but don't move because of a guy stealing some wrecks, there are sooo many pussies playing this game.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#19 - 2012-09-06 21:43:36 UTC
chapter13 wrote:
You can choose whether to engage them or not based on the ship. If it's a frig...that's generally an easy call. Good point though, they could have a pvp fitted ship in local docked and come right back. That's a point to consider :)


This. Except, they want you to shoot their disposable cheap ship so they can come back in a pvp ship conveniently waiting in a station or a nearby Orca. Personally, I would not pvp in a pve ship.

No good deed goes unpunished

Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#20 - 2012-09-10 19:27:14 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
chapter13 wrote:
You can choose whether to engage them or not based on the ship. If it's a frig...that's generally an easy call. Good point though, they could have a pvp fitted ship in local docked and come right back. That's a point to consider :)


This. Except, they want you to shoot their disposable cheap ship so they can come back in a pvp ship conveniently waiting in a station or a nearby Orca. Personally, I would not pvp in a pve ship.



The ninja looter (not salvager...salvaging never makes them red...) either wants easy loot or an easy kill.

Or both.

Typical ninja loots in a frig or dessie, and will have a dedicated pvp boat stashed nearby/insystem in case you pop them.

Really blatant ninjas will pop into your mission with a corpmate flying an Orca, so they can get aggro on you and then switch ships onsite.....

Remember that if they have a corpy repping them, with the new aggro mechanics the repper goes red to you too (no more 'neutral' RR anymore...) and you may have a chance to bag the repper as well as the ninja....Bear

And always remember...it helps to have friends.....

Pirate

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

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