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Current incursion isk/hr vs level 4's?
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Morteus Ghouel
Brain Farmers Inc
#1 - 2012-07-20 17:03:37 UTC
Hi guys, as i understand incursions (mainly vanguards) went through a nerf which are going to be partly reversed soon?

My question is how the isk/hr compares currently with incursions vs level 4's.

Taking into consideration i'd first need to grind the standings and then read up on each mission im wondering if incursions may be a better option. If not what are the best non caldari ships to use for level 4's?

THanks
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#2 - 2012-07-20 21:19:12 UTC
Incursions are better if you can get into fleet fast. For sure they are much less boring.

Best ships are Mach and Nightmare with T2 equipment and at least meta4 guns. Also T3 cruisers. Maelstrom, Vindicator, marauders, Hyperion are common for shield fleets.
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-20 21:34:29 UTC
Since when does billionaires do Incursions/LVL IV's?

Och and Machariel for Both.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#4 - 2012-07-21 06:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
Morteus Ghouel wrote:
Hi guys, as i understand incursions (mainly vanguards) went through a nerf which are going to be partly reversed soon?

My question is how the isk/hr compares currently with incursions vs level 4's.

Taking into consideration i'd first need to grind the standings and then read up on each mission im wondering if incursions may be a better option. If not what are the best non caldari ships to use for level 4's?

THanks



In an armor VG or shield HQ PUG, 60M ISK/hr if fleet is competently led. That is ISK alone, I dont count substantial Concord LP you'll earn and its conversion.


In a top fleet (such as those run by "scrubs" and ISN) maybe 100M ISK/hr (again ISK alone) but top ships are required (for "scrubs" vindi/kronos with T2 blasters or Legion with T2 lasers or Guardian logi 5 other ships are more or less unacceptable, ISN doctrine is unknown for me, but they have similar requirement in terms of ships and skill).

However sometimes it takes quite a bit on the armor side fleet to form (while shield runs HQ pug fleets almost all of the time), and I didnt take into account waiting times which can be substantial in PUGs that arent well led.

Also if you must use autopilot traveling few dozen jumps to new incursion area can take a while, while for missions you can just log in and start grind whenever you want.

However, missions cant make 60-100M ISK/hr by bounties and mission rewards alone, and you'll want to loot and salvage at least big rats, and then you'll have to reprocess low level meta loot, build profitable stuff and sell it. In terms of time, and skill requirement for both decent mission ship and salvage/indy/hauler alt to refine build stuff and haul to the trade hub (assuming you dont fly near one because of ninja looters) is much higher than SP and time requirement even to get into top incursion ship (pirate BS, T3 or logistics 5).

However you really need to stay away from TDF/TVP pugs as much as you can and join serious ISK/hr community ("scrubs" or ISN there may be more in shield side, but I dont fly shields at all so I dont know).
Safdrof Uta
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-08-15 21:27:26 UTC
If your only goal is to make isk/hr, and you don't care about having fun/enjoying the community, then ISN is definately the way to go. As said above, 100mil an hour and above, plus anything from concord LP.

But if you want an enjoyable community, where people are friends (normally) then TVP and TDF are definately viable options. Sure, ISK/Hr is lower (about 60-90mil/hour) due to having to find replacements for fleets etc. But the community is great, and (nearly) everyone gets along.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#6 - 2012-08-15 22:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
For reference:

TVP = "The Valhalla Project", a shield channel that specializes in HQs and Assaults. Currently the largest incursion community,

TDF = "The Ditanian Fleet", the main armor channel atm

BTL = "BTL Pub", formerly the biggest community before the VG nerf, and making a comeback now. Shields, mostly vanguards with assaults mixed in now and then. TVP formed out of this, more or less, and at one point recruited from here as well as their own channel.



Those are the three main channels to join if you're interested in diving into incursions. They're usually full of you bog standard pick-up groups, but the smaller, more specialized channels will dip into them (BTL and TDF mainly) when they need more people, so it's a good place to make friends while learning the ropes.




As for the isk/hr, in highsec you can actually come pretty close to it by multi-boxing missions, but you have to be damned good at it. 100m/hr (not including LP) is kind of the standard goal for the shiny channels, though it does vary. Your average PUG won't make as much, obviously, since the pilots probably don't fly together very often, but it's still pretty good money.

thhief ghabmoef
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#7 - 2012-08-16 07:21:47 UTC
Safdrof Uta wrote:
If your only goal is to make isk/hr, and you don't care about having fun/enjoying the community, then ISN is definately the way to go. As said above, 100mil an hour and above, plus anything from concord LP.

But if you want an enjoyable community, where people are friends (normally) then TVP and TDF are definately viable options. Sure, ISK/Hr is lower (about 60-90mil/hour) due to having to find replacements for fleets etc. But the community is great, and (nearly) everyone gets along.


Honestly there is no ******* difference between what goes on in coms between ISN BTl TVP CID SAQD

Its all the same people saying the same stuff. You make ISN fleets sound like a bad communist propaganda flim :X

♞
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-08-18 13:21:12 UTC
Safdrof Uta wrote:
If your only goal is to make isk/hr, and you don't care about having fun/enjoying the community, then ISN is definately the way to go. As said above, 100mil an hour and above, plus anything from concord LP.

But if you want an enjoyable community, where people are friends (normally) then TVP and TDF are definately viable options. Sure, ISK/Hr is lower (about 60-90mil/hour) due to having to find replacements for fleets etc. But the community is great, and (nearly) everyone gets along.



Well, Considering everytime i FC in ISN i am crying of laughter, We make serious isk and can have a crack of jokes doing it.

Very sad to see TVP members cast down other communitys.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-18 18:45:32 UTC
If you are single boxing, incursions make decent isk. With how they currently fly vanguards, you can make between 60 and 100mil/hour - that being said, you still need to form up, and 100mil an hour is a rate which you may occasionally hit, but its more of a high end figure. However, an important point to note is that all the incursion communities have an obsessive fear/hatred of multi-boxing, so if you have multiple accounts then mission running is going to be better. With missioning, you can hit 60mil an hour with a good spread of missions, though you're more likely to hit more like 40. But you get significantly more LP from the missions, which if you know how to cash them out right pay significantly more than concord LP.

In the end, I recommend incursions if you are single boxing, and can put up with their stuck up attitudes. I recommend missioning (or better yet, running WH's) if you are multi-boxing, or if you have much more limited playtime.

-Arazel
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#10 - 2012-08-19 10:50:39 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
If you are single boxing, incursions make decent isk. With how they currently fly vanguards, you can make between 60 and 100mil/hour - that being said, you still need to form up, and 100mil an hour is a rate which you may occasionally hit, but its more of a high end figure. However, an important point to note is that all the incursion communities have an obsessive fear/hatred of multi-boxing, so if you have multiple accounts then mission running is going to be better. With missioning, you can hit 60mil an hour with a good spread of missions, though you're more likely to hit more like 40. But you get significantly more LP from the missions, which if you know how to cash them out right pay significantly more than concord LP.

In the end, I recommend incursions if you are single boxing, and can put up with their stuck up attitudes. I recommend missioning (or better yet, running WH's) if you are multi-boxing, or if you have much more limited playtime.

-Arazel


multi-box smart, with 2 teamspeak names 2 accounts with dissimilar names ect...

Mutli-boxing 3 accounts in an HQ fleet where average dps is so low no one can tell your watching porn...
The money is quite good!

♞
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#11 - 2012-08-19 15:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerath Naaris
Can someone please post a cookie-cutter Mach fit that would be acceptable for the average incursion fleet that would get an invitation fairly quickly (with Meta guns as I am somewhat away from T2s, skill wise What? )?

Or are T2 guns an absolute must?

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#12 - 2012-08-19 19:12:22 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Can someone please post a cookie-cutter Mach fit that would be acceptable for the average incursion fleet that would get an invitation fairly quickly (with Meta guns as I am somewhat away from T2s, skill wise What? )?

Or are T2 guns an absolute must?


http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=dps&s=Machariel
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#13 - 2012-08-19 22:36:21 UTC
I try to form up a fleet most days right after DT some days I get motivated and do one from 0800 or 0900 eve time. after I get the fleet formed (usually 30 to 40 minutes, no boxes allowed) I do 100 to 140mil an hour if I am not getting those numbers then i know i have a slacker in the fleet.

Yes I am an ISN FC, and I invite anyone that has t2 guns fitted to their pirate faction BS. Usually while handing ore out to the fleet I scan ships to check out fits from the orca that will be parked there handing out ore, ammo, and even drone replacements for the occasional one lost in a site 'usually more like 5 or 10'.

Keeping the standards up and ensuring that everyone in the fleet is running an optimal fit ship ensures that the 100mil an hour is the low end of acceptable.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Vrykolakasis
Sparrowhawks Corp
#14 - 2012-08-19 22:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vrykolakasis
Safdrof Uta wrote:
If your only goal is to make isk/hr, and you don't care about having fun/enjoying the community, then ISN is definately the way to go. As said above, 100mil an hour and above, plus anything from concord LP.

But if you want an enjoyable community, where people are friends (normally) then TVP and TDF are definately viable options. Sure, ISK/Hr is lower (about 60-90mil/hour) due to having to find replacements for fleets etc. But the community is great, and (nearly) everyone gets along.



Edit: I should probably make a more helpful response:

Post nerf, I have only flown in fleets with TVP and ISN. Without going into too much detail, I have had a lot more fun since I switched to flying with ISN, and I enjoy the community a ton. I don't know what TVP is like these days so I can't make any judgments on that community, but the idea that ISN is no fun and has a difficult community to get along with is very inaccurate.

On the original question: I personally get 40-70 mil/hr running level 4s in caldari space in a Vargur, solo-box, and 90-140 mil/hr running incursions in a Machariel, solo-box. I know some players who have pulled even better isk/hr from level 4s in Golems, but I personally have not tried it and have not personally flown anything with faster level 4 isk than a Vargur. And on the topic of finding fleets: yes, missions can be faster to start up, but if you join one of the good incursion communities you should be able to find a fleet relatively quickly.