These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Titan changes - update

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1201 - 2012-08-11 20:44:23 UTC
Okay, keep on ignoring the fact DDs did have the possibility to be used on structures way way back, but it was removed when it was shown that large dickstars could be alphaed by a smallish titan fleet, just like titans were disallowed from DDing subcaps to keep them from alphaing logistics all the time.

You see, if only you'd try to think of this thing called game balance, instead of coming up with gamebreaking ideas like REMOVE ALL DRAWBACKS TO TRIAGE, then I wouldn't be telling you that your ideas are bad. You don't, however, which means I have to tell you that your ideas are bad, because they are.

Deal with it.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1202 - 2012-08-12 03:01:49 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, keep on ignoring the fact DDs did have the possibility to be used on structures way way back, but it was removed when it was shown that large dickstars could be alphaed by a smallish titan fleet, just like titans were disallowed from DDing subcaps to keep them from alphaing logistics all the time.

Every problem you cite is with DD being game breaking; Triage is fine, even after my proposals. DD is game breaking when it alpha's structures. DD is game breaking when it alpha's subcaps. DD is game breaking when it alpha's logistics. DD is game breaking when it alpha's ships.

All that I am saying is that IF we keep DD's, then they should be able to hit a pos or structure, only. AND IF the dickstar doesn't have stront, then it deserves to be alpha'd. And IF they didn't cyno jam the system normally and bubble around the pos to block warp-ins, then they deserve hostile caps coming in.

But to be honest, I wouldn't shed a tear if DD's disappeared and Siege became available to Titans instead. Yes, CCP, we need DD's gone, and until then, they must be limited to structures and other non-moving, non-ship things. Please CCP, give Titans the Siege module and remove the DD.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1203 - 2012-08-12 06:15:46 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
But to be honest, I wouldn't shed a tear if DD's disappeared and Siege became available to Titans instead. Yes, CCP, we need DD's gone, and until then, they must be limited to structures and other non-moving, non-ship things. Please CCP, give Titans the Siege module and remove the DD.


Yeah, no. DDs are fine, siege mode on titans is a terrible idea.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1204 - 2012-08-12 09:34:00 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
But to be honest, I wouldn't shed a tear if DD's disappeared and Siege became available to Titans instead. Yes, CCP, we need DD's gone, and until then, they must be limited to structures and other non-moving, non-ship things. Please CCP, give Titans the Siege module and remove the DD.

Yes, let's make titans even more of a superdread than it already is.

Sigh.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1205 - 2012-08-12 19:44:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
But to be honest, I wouldn't shed a tear if DD's disappeared and Siege became available to Titans instead. Yes, CCP, we need DD's gone, and until then, they must be limited to structures and other non-moving, non-ship things. Please CCP, give Titans the Siege module and remove the DD.

Yes, let's make titans even more of a superdread than it already is.

Sigh.

If you want to remove DD and replace it with nothing, I certainly won't argue that either. Titans with no DD would certainly stop breaking the game.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Slaver73
Prometheus Resources
#1206 - 2012-08-19 18:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver73
Isn't it possible to change the DD to an AOE attack like the bomb launcher?


So that they have to align to the enemy fleet - that would still make it hard to hit the fleet but still give them lots of power if they hit
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1207 - 2012-08-19 18:54:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Slaver73 wrote:
Isn't it possible to change the DD to an AOE attack like the bomb launcher?


So that they have to align to the enemy fleet - that would still make it hard to hit the fleet but still give them lots of power if they hit

When the AOE is the entire grid, direction of alignment is irrelevant. When the damage is 3 mil, multiplying that times an infinite number of ships within the area of effect turns an incredibly OP weapon into an insanely OP weapon. DD is only fine for those who like incredibly OP weapons on Titans, typically being Titan pilots, themselves.

Edit: One option for addressing the OP DD, is to apply the damage over time, like say, over the 10 minutes required for the cool down timer. I would definitely support the DD 3 mil damage being applied over 10 minutes, which is to say 5,000 damage being applied every second.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1208 - 2012-08-19 18:59:50 UTC
We had an AOE DD which gave out what, 60-70k HP of damage, and we got rid of that because it was ****, balance-wise. It's not coming back.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Slaver73
Prometheus Resources
#1209 - 2012-08-19 20:57:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver73
Andy Landen wrote:

When the AOE is the entire grid, direction of alignment is irrelevant. When the damage is 3 mil, multiplying that times an infinite number of ships within the area of effect turns an incredibly OP weapon into an insanely OP weapon. DD is only fine for those who like incredibly OP weapons on Titans, typically being Titan pilots, themselves.



gnah... really... stop to troll me...

I gave just an idea with open variables, I never wrote something about entire grid or 3m damage or infinite ships that are affected by this

with ur terrible arguments you can destroy all ideas...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1210 - 2012-08-19 21:26:59 UTC
Andy Landen? Bringer of bad capital ideas? You don't say.

You should see his other threads.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1211 - 2012-08-20 23:47:12 UTC
All my ideas are good. Just ask me. The rest of ya'll are just trolls.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#1212 - 2012-08-22 08:23:25 UTC
so is there a reason this very outdated thread is still sticked?

are there more changes to Titans in coming or are we waiting for tericide to hit them
Vheroki
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#1213 - 2012-09-01 12:31:40 UTC
They are too busy implementing rainbows and Dust then do ship rebalancing properly. Probably it will take a few years to make something right. OH wait they are failing since 2003 forgot.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1214 - 2012-09-02 02:56:58 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
so is there a reason this very outdated thread is still sticked?

are there more changes to Titans in coming or are we waiting for tericide to hit them


They have already made it clear that Titans will be nerfed with scaled damage and with updated tracking mechanics to protect smaller ships, and that other variables are still being considered for future Titan nerfs. They are considering the DD and its role in Eve but have not committed to any course of action yet.

The new tier organization is also bringing ships into logical training, bonus, and progression order. It is not aimed at changing Titans directly.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
iskflakes
#1215 - 2012-09-18 20:22:35 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
so is there a reason this very outdated thread is still sticked?

are there more changes to Titans in coming or are we waiting for tericide to hit them


They have already made it clear that Titans will be nerfed with scaled damage and with updated tracking mechanics to protect smaller ships, and that other variables are still being considered for future Titan nerfs. They are considering the DD and its role in Eve but have not committed to any course of action yet.

The new tier organization is also bringing ships into logical training, bonus, and progression order. It is not aimed at changing Titans directly.


It will take years to get around to titans anyway at the current rate the rebalancing is progressing.

-
Justin Cody
War Firm
#1216 - 2012-09-28 06:59:33 UTC
The problem with titans is several fold and much of this hasn't been addressed in a way.

  • Scale - Titans are so big and have so much ehp that they end up not scaling in a linear fashion the way sub caps do and this causes a problem...like when DD's could affect sub caps.
  • Lack of a downside (and no not being able to get in another ship easily is counted as a down side because I am talking about game mechanics/ship performance metrics.


Honestly at the moment Titans are quite fine and balanced...well except for the whole slave implant thing. But that isn't a problem unique to titans.

The real issue is what other sort of 'epic' or 'end-game' content can CCP deliver to offer alternatives to titan pilots. This would have several effects. Current POS's dedicated to titan/super carrier production would be re-tasked to produce the new class of super be it a true mothership or some other sort of craft. This would make titan production slow...reduce the influx and fill unfilled roles in large alliance structures and those titans that do die would be replaced slower.

There IS a finite level to production and there are structural ways to prevent too many titans from being in-game at any time by providing incentives/options to players to do something else effective.

Perhaps CCp's problem with the titan was that it became a "catch-all" and tries to do too many roles in a single package. It should be a multi-mission boat, but it does when numbers get to a certain point begin to eclipse sub capital fleets. Power creep is fun...until you hit that critical mass...and then one sees the mistake.
Denuo Secus
#1217 - 2012-11-14 14:50:24 UTC
First, my apologies if this question was discussed here already. I didn't read this threadnought Shocked

My question: this sounds as if turret titans are handicapped twice after this change when facing smaller targets - compared to the missile titan. Because turret titans are now affected by tracking and signature of the target. Or vice versa, they look like missile titans with additional tracking penalty. On paper. But how will this work in-game? How strong are the negative effects on XL turrets? Will turret titans still keep at least some "blapping" advantage?

I understand the reason behind this change. But as soon as you're not able to spread a dozen titans perfectly positioned on the field (so you can blap everything from everywhere) things look different. Ofc it can be argued if it makes sense to field only one titan with a fleet...but I'd like this idea.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1218 - 2012-11-14 16:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Denuo Secus wrote:
First, my apologies if this question was discussed here already. I didn't read this threadnought Shocked

My question: this sounds as if turret titans are handicapped twice after this change when facing smaller targets - compared to the missile titan. Because turret titans are now affected by tracking and signature of the target. Or vice versa, they look like missile titans with additional tracking penalty. On paper. But how will this work in-game? How strong are the negative effects on XL turrets? Will turret titans still keep at least some "blapping" advantage?

I understand the reason behind this change. But as soon as you're not able to spread a dozen titans perfectly positioned on the field (so you can blap everything from everywhere) things look different. Ofc it can be argued if it makes sense to field only one titan with a fleet...but I'd like this idea.

Large turrets already have signature resolution problem (every turret in game has tracking and signature resolution tbh, even small ones), it's just titans (hulls) have just another penalty. The same XL turrets put on dreads in fact track better, for example.

When it comes to XL missiles though, their exp radius/speed just make it so they can't apply DPS for **** no matter that they don't have additional penalties (to almost all targets, that's it).

I guess that's how it works.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Demolishar
United Aggression
#1219 - 2012-11-21 16:05:29 UTC
Tracking dreads have become the new tracking titans. Sig scaled damage should have applied to all capital guns from the start...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1220 - 2012-11-21 20:45:24 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
Tracking dreads have become the new tracking titans. Sig scaled damage should have applied to all capital guns from the start...

One major difference: dreads are vastly easier to kill, and as such are much more balanced by default.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat