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500m to declare war on Goonswarm? (AKA: why are small corps penalised by the wardec system?)

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Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#161 - 2012-08-18 16:50:15 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
[quote=Shukuzen Kiraa]

They do care about high sec where they're so used to doing whatever they want with 0 consequences. Taking that away from them is what this is about - Giving them a taste of their own medicine. I really wonder why so many people are opposed to this ;p


Well, this is about much more than just Goonswarm (they are an obvious example that many people would like to wardec, and not just because they want more targets).

It's really about a game mechanic which favours large entities and punishes small ones. It's wildly and blatantly biased in a way it clearly should not be. You are financially punished if you are the smaller corp and initiate the wardec, when of course the larger entity should (in theory) be much better equipped to deal with the wardec - financially or otherwise. It's a system that makes no logical sense.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-08-18 17:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Since there was a market?

PVE doesn't affect other players directly, you get isk or some modules. What you do with that can affect other players afterwards, which means that for the most part all PVE is exactly that, PVE, whereas ganking someone affects them directly, which is directly PVP. The only way PVE turns into PVP is when someone decides to stick their nose in while the other guy is doing PVE, or indirectly a while after you're done doing PVE and start selling **** on the market, at which point it turns from PVE to PVP.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#163 - 2012-08-18 18:31:18 UTC
To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,


Ever heard of one man corps?

< One man corp.
Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#164 - 2012-08-18 20:23:59 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,


Ever heard of one man corps?

< One man corp.


One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2012-08-18 20:26:54 UTC
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,


Ever heard of one man corps?

< One man corp.


One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point.

You need to figure out who they are before you can wardec them, which makes 1 player corps just as effective as NPC corps.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2012-08-18 21:27:28 UTC
*lol*

This is about people wanting to wardec the goonswarm ?

Hell, i'm sure the goonswarm would be happy to call any enemy mutual
so their enemy saves money on the wardec.

Just ask them !
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-08-18 21:52:17 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,


Ever heard of one man corps?

< One man corp.


One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point.

You need to figure out who they are before you can wardec them, which makes 1 player corps just as effective as NPC corps.

How much does it cost to war dec a one man corp? Like 50 million ISK? Still it offers up some options as opposed to now.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2012-08-18 22:04:07 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
You used to be able to dog pile on goons but they saw that fixed quickly.


yeh i came back and played for bit, then they changed it and i lost interest again.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-08-18 22:07:57 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Hiyora Akachi wrote:
To the guy proposing removing frieghters from NPC corps,


Ever heard of one man corps?

< One man corp.


One man corps can be wardecced, which was kinda his point.

You need to figure out who they are before you can wardec them, which makes 1 player corps just as effective as NPC corps.

How much does it cost to war dec a one man corp? Like 50 million ISK? Still it offers up some options as opposed to now.

Doesn't matter, you still have to figure out which 1 man corp belongs to whatever alliance you want to interdict before you can wardec them.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-08-18 23:17:03 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Doesn't matter, you still have to figure out which 1 man corp belongs to whatever alliance you want to interdict before you can wardec them.

I'll trade 50m for a freighter kill mail any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Even if it wasn't transporting enemy goods.

Wouldn't you?
Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#171 - 2012-08-19 11:01:32 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Doesn't matter, you still have to figure out which 1 man corp belongs to whatever alliance you want to interdict before you can wardec them.


This is hardly an impossible task, especially if you have spaiz. So it's still a lot better than not being able to dec them at all.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-08-19 12:08:01 UTC
Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lady Whipcrack
Doomheim
#173 - 2012-08-19 18:07:49 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc.


Or you could just move players into a NPC corp which it is possible to declare war against after 6 or 12 months. Either that or people can join a corp or start their own. No hiding from wardecs then.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#174 - 2012-08-19 19:00:49 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc.

Maybe it should ....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#175 - 2012-08-19 19:16:33 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Since there was a market?

PVE doesn't affect other players directly.


When you sell the mods you get... NPCs buy them then?

Or the minerals those mods grind into

Or the ninja salvager that comes into your mission

etc.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-08-19 19:19:51 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Since there was a market?

PVE doesn't affect other players directly.


When you sell the mods you get... NPCs buy them then?

Or the minerals those mods grind into

Or the ninja salvager that comes into your mission

etc.

Key word: Directly.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mr Clean Man
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2012-08-20 14:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Clean Man
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
It cannot be logical for an 8000 man alliance to pay vastly less to start the same war as a 50 man corp. It makes absolutely no sense.


You're right, I see no reason why it should cost more to properly prepare a group of 50 people to take on a sovereign state's army of 8,000. Oh wait.

It's like asking why a midget would have to do more work to punch Shaq in the head.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#178 - 2012-08-20 15:10:09 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Ashrik Tyr wrote:
I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.

So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot.


Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.

What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.


A five-man corp is going to have the goal of shutting down a supply line? RFOLMAO!!!

Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:


If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?



Sounds logical.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-08-20 15:17:22 UTC
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Lady Whipcrack wrote:
Please tell me how this new wardec system is supposed to be 'better'?

Apart from the obvious minor benefit that war is slightly easier to administer, it seems setup to protect large alliances. Not that alliances even have to be that large before war costs become painful for smaller corporations.

So please explain to me how this is an improvement on the old system. For everyone apart from massive alliances, that is.

In short, it's vastly more expensive to declare war. Why? It's not like 0.0 alliances don't enjoy targets in empire as a break from 0.0 blobbage, so this change seems to benefit no-one (apart from Solar Citizens)



if you can't afford 500m easily, then wardeccing goonswarm would be rather pointless.


I can afford it, it just seems poor value for money compared to the old system.

What I want to know is why this change was necessary, as it seems to benefit no-one. Everyone likes wardecs except large renter alliances like Solar Citizens.


Poor value? Your five people can camp a gate and have a decent chance of finding one of their guys coming along on the way to high sec. They could do the same to you, but not many of your five people are likely to visit their camp. You have a much higher chance of finding a target than they would. So it should cost you more.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#180 - 2012-08-20 16:09:39 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, let's presume the reason to disallow freighters, JFs and orcas in NPC corps is because it's abused to avoid wardecs. By that logic, this should be extended to other shiptypes as well, such as whatever is the most common ratting ship type for L4s, mining barges and above, T2 hauler ships etc.

Not only will logistics be drastically slower using the ships you mentioned above, but the cost to suicide gank one is dramatically less compared to a freighter.

"most common ratting ship type for L4s" Seriously??