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As A miner I would like to see Null sec Local removed
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Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-13 01:02:56 UTC
From a points of a Miner

I would like to have the asteroids belts to be removed or at least 50% removed from the over view so they will only found via low level skill probing and repawn in new locations.
This would work well with if local is removed.

So when a scout comes into system, unless eye were on the gate would have to scan down the mining belts. People with eyes on scanning for probes should be alerted to the roamer

On the other hand if a PVP industrial hunter is crafty, he can scan down and book mark the roids to instant fly in. AFK Cloaker

Book Marking the Contact is a miners way around that, and with the combination of search agent alts the AFK Cloaker Will be at the old stand off.

On the other hand the AFK Cloaker can trade his book marks to a friend and do afk cloaking or a roaming squad can have scout come in early book mark the Belts and bring a roam to that location.

This would allow smaller groups, with planning the ability for targets more targets
This would encourage AFK Cloakers “looking for kills vs Grief” to Move to several locations.
This would allow miners or rats a level of security (sometimes false) which with effort can be circumvent. Doing activities near the front line will become less risk.

CURRENTLY
Currently it is too easy to become a stalemate AFK Cloaker = Miners Docked Up.
When roam comes in, Miners mine in High end Scan Belts and go to POS. Dock up till the Roam Leaves.
Intel Eyes can cover who Solar system vs just 1 Gate.

I am agreeing is Null Sec is too easy to forecast once you learn the simple lessons. Intel, like local, is too easy to come by. I know instantly the enemy is coming and their numbers with out any effort. Results in Over Kill or Avoid engagement. It is like playing poker with all face cards up. Since people are risk adverse, less combat happens.

Seasoned Players are setting on their Larals, leaving only the easy targets in Null sec are newbs.

Older topic covering this area ish....
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=834446

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2011-10-13 03:32:27 UTC

Adding a potential threat to your contacts watch-list and running locator agents to know where they are does not provide any safety at all!!! You can't possibly run a locator agent on all the potential threats to your ship. There are too many threats and they move about constantly.

Now, there are a lot of problems with local.... as the wealth of information it provides typically makes living in null-sec less dangerous than living in hi-sec. You always know when an enemy is around, so avoiding danger becomes trivial.

At the same point in time, this is a social game. There needs to be a method to see and communicate with people. For the most part, null-sec is very empty, and if you remove local, its very hard to find other players. As someone that hunts in null and WH space, I guarantee the number of conversations I have in local are significantly higher in null. People don't talk in local when it gives away intel, but if that intel is already known, then friendly chitter-chatter about fights, fittings, and targets are a common occurring. (Then again, gf's don't happen that often in WH's... its mostly just ganks).

Finally, constantly spamming scan to check for probes and/or enemy ships really isn't a viable solution either. There's a very difficult non-trivial balance that must occur between too much intel and too little.

I personally think current situation gives too much intel to the hunted, allowing everyone to know there's a threat in system before the hunter can finish loading grid. I think your suggestion is too much in favor of the hunted, providing way too little info to the hunted. I personally believe the best compromise is to put a 10-20 second delay on people appearing in local. This is enough time that a quality hunter can load grid and get 3-5 directional scans to locate a target before the target becomes aware of their presence. By my estimation (as a fairly practiced hunter), this would increase the chances of catching a ratting bot (which truly represents the most aware type of ratter) from 2% to 10%. While this might seem like a lot, there are many principles that can reduce this back to a much lower risk (Don't sit at zero at the belt/anom; PvE aligned; PvE in groups; etc). This is a balancing act, and I think a simple small delay is enough to provide a fair balance between the hunters and the hunted.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-13 09:31:03 UTC

Now, there are a lot of problems with local.... as the wealth of information it provides typically makes living in null-sec less dangerous than living in hi-sec. You always know when an enemy is around, so avoiding danger becomes trivial.

For Mice like me (Miner) and Cats (Attacker) like you it needs to be a a rock paper cutters, Allowing Put a counter to initial attack, then your you to counter my initial defense, and then me to counter your counter which may open me up to your original attack.

Worm Hole local won't have to much effect on social aspect as in null we our bombared by Social Channels, Intel channels, etc and the Propaganda Goons Shows in local. Besides major rule is to never talk it local for us mice at that is cream for Cats.

On of the reasons for it hard for Cats to find mice in Null sec as you mice are risk advers, we set up shop well be hind friendly lines, making cats board of traveling across town to find us. With no local, us mice can now sneak closer to the cats since the cats now actually have to "Hunt" for the pray instead of walking down the pipe waiting for a mouse eating afk.

Now cunning cats, logging on/Off, Pre book marking locations, sneaking though worm holes, can catch even the most prepared of mice. Using Contacts lists to check to see if prey is on, so they know what hunting areas may have prey.

Using the Start map locating High concentrations of Mice, using Sovernty Indexing to know where the upgraded mining systems are.

No local will mean the person who puts in the most work gets the biggest reward. Will really award the solo or small pack of hunters, or smaller and transient mining groups .

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-13 13:58:55 UTC
I entirely agree on the idea about belts not being on grid has ice belts being depleted after x amount mined like any other roid.

But remove local? - NOES !!

I want bots to gtfo to POS each time I jump in and so make bot users loose a lot of your isk.
SuNnY l3oNe
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-13 14:36:26 UTC
I love the idea of no active local count in Null Sec space. I think CCP hit the nail on the head with worm hole local chat. No one appears until they decide to appear in local. Null Sec should be the idea. I would add that for character held sov if they would like an active local chat in thier system, then maybe the inception of new modules for systems could be created. Something along the lines of an active system scanner. You want to know how many people are in local? Easily done, Just upgrade your system to strategic V and install an active system scanner. Furthermore, I like the idea of gate guns that go active on all nuetral and negative contacts in systems containing outpost and systems. The guns would operate under the owning alliance's standings. However, I would add that, in order to install such modules on the gates, the sytems should be upgraded to Strategic and Military V and must have an outpost or station in system. Force the alliances to spend isk to upkeep their space and also add a new demintion to the game.

Local chat in Null sec does hinder small roaming PVP in Null sec. I thought it was supposed to be the wild west. I guess to CCP their idea of the wild west in macro ratters cloaking when local jumps up 1 or more nuetral. Too little small gang warfare exists in null sec due to local chat. Just make it resemble worm hole space.

For the Role Players, its easily incorporated into storyline. Since there is not a stable presence of ownership in Null, CONCORD has determined it unneccesary to have installed the proper scanners to upkeep an active local scan. See even Morsis Mihi and CVA could get into that explanation.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#6 - 2011-10-13 21:20:11 UTC
Local needs to be removed from nullsec. Nobody should have insta intel/get to safety asap alarms.
reamau
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-13 22:05:01 UTC

When I'm hunting miners in belts in my cov-ops ship, never talking, why should they know I'm in the area just because of a chat channel? I'm not scannable, why should they know I'm close? Makes no sense.

When I'm (trying) to mine, why should roaming pirates know I'm even in the system without taking the time to run the belts or scan the anoms, etc? Currently they see its empty and move to the next system. They should work for it, since most solo or small mining ops can't even kill a geared frigate. Makes no sense.

Easy to solve the "I'm lonely and want to chat", just have the game use a region chat instead of local system chat. Its simple enough to shut off an unwanted channel.

While I'm not in favor of bots of any kind, I am even more against silly game mechanics to prevent them. The idea of using local chat to get bots to dock or warp to safe spot just seems to be a broken mechanic.

Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes.